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1987 P Memorial Cent Machine Doubling Tutorial! (For Starters Mostly)

 
 
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 Posted 11/06/2018  9:06 pm Show Profile   Check Errers and Varietys's eBay Listings Bookmark this topic Add Errers and Varietys to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
So today we will be talking about Machine Doubling. I see questions about Machine Doubling a lot, so I am going to talk about it. Anyways, let's get started! With Machine Doubling, the size of the devices are usually reduced, and the doubling is shelf like in appearance. This is caused by the die bouncing off the surface of the coin, and then landing in a different spot. They call it Machine Doubling, because the machine itself causes the doubling. I have also drew lines on some of the pictures to show you the reduction of the devices. I have also captured some pictures on the side, to show you the step like appearance to the Machine Doubling, on the devices. On a real Doubled Die,the device size is always increased in size, never reduced ever. A real Doubled Die happens, when there's a mistake in the die making process, usually a misalignment between a working hub and a working die. See the difference? Hopefully, this will help everyone, including the new members.













Here's a real Doubled Die. Notice how the device is increased in size? All coins struck by a Doubled Die (hub doubling on the die) will show this same exact doubling, from that affected die itself. A Doubled Die is caused by a mistake in the die making process, not by the strike. Machine Doubling will never do this nor look like this.


Errers and Varietys.
More information about Die Deterioration? http://goccf.com/t/317950
Retired U.S. Mint Coin Die Set information. http://goccf.com/t/302961
1988 P LMC RDV-006, 1998 P LMC Wide AM, and 2000 P LMC Wide AM. http://goccf.com/t/327834 http://goccf.com/t/294303 http://goccf.com/t/312900
1973 D Lincoln Memorial cent With Recurring Die Subsidence Error Information. http://goccf.com/t/304624
Machine Doubling tutorial. http://goccf.com/t/332421
Die states progression on coins. Scroll down, so you can see the different die state progressions. http://goccf.com/t/325638
Die Deterioration Doubling Tutorial. http://goccf.com/t/336470
Edited by Errers and Varietys
11/06/2018 9:55 pm
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 Posted 11/06/2018  9:38 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SilverDollar2017 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Nice write-up E&V, definitely will help members who want to learn about MD vs doubled dies

One thing I'd like to mention. (I'm nitpicking, I know. )


Quote:
the size of the devices are always reduced in size


Coop explained that there is a type of MD, called push doubling. It can increase the devices in size but has characteristics that distinguish it from a true doubled die. Just thought I'd mention that.
Collector of all classic US coinage.

How to identify cleaned coins: http://goccf.com/t/319679
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 Posted 11/06/2018  9:43 pm  Show Profile   Check Errers and Varietys's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add Errers and Varietys to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thank you for your feedback SilverDollar2017! I'll fix that.

I fixed it and put "are usually reduced in size". I am not an expert by any means, but have a lot of knowledge about certain stuff. Please let me know if there needs to be more changes, since this is just a brush up lesson from my mind. What do you think of this change SilverDollar2017?
Errers and Varietys.
More information about Die Deterioration? http://goccf.com/t/317950
Retired U.S. Mint Coin Die Set information. http://goccf.com/t/302961
1988 P LMC RDV-006, 1998 P LMC Wide AM, and 2000 P LMC Wide AM. http://goccf.com/t/327834 http://goccf.com/t/294303 http://goccf.com/t/312900
1973 D Lincoln Memorial cent With Recurring Die Subsidence Error Information. http://goccf.com/t/304624
Machine Doubling tutorial. http://goccf.com/t/332421
Die states progression on coins. Scroll down, so you can see the different die state progressions. http://goccf.com/t/325638
Die Deterioration Doubling Tutorial. http://goccf.com/t/336470
Edited by Errers and Varietys
11/06/2018 9:53 pm
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 Posted 11/06/2018  10:31 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Spence to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Nice write-up. If these are all your images then fine, but if you have "borrowed" them from others, then I would advocate for giving the appropriate people credit for their photos.
"The danger we all now face is distinguishing between what is authentic and what is performed."
-----King Adz
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 Posted 11/06/2018  10:31 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SilverDollar2017 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Looks great. Also, I'm no expert.
Collector of all classic US coinage.

How to identify cleaned coins: http://goccf.com/t/319679
Edited by SilverDollar2017
11/06/2018 10:32 pm
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 Posted 11/06/2018  10:37 pm  Show Profile   Check Errers and Varietys's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add Errers and Varietys to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Don't worry Spence. It's all good. These are all of my images that I took and edited, using a program from Windows 10. Also, thank you SilverDollar2017 once again for your feedback! This thread will serve its purpose.
Errers and Varietys.
More information about Die Deterioration? http://goccf.com/t/317950
Retired U.S. Mint Coin Die Set information. http://goccf.com/t/302961
1988 P LMC RDV-006, 1998 P LMC Wide AM, and 2000 P LMC Wide AM. http://goccf.com/t/327834 http://goccf.com/t/294303 http://goccf.com/t/312900
1973 D Lincoln Memorial cent With Recurring Die Subsidence Error Information. http://goccf.com/t/304624
Machine Doubling tutorial. http://goccf.com/t/332421
Die states progression on coins. Scroll down, so you can see the different die state progressions. http://goccf.com/t/325638
Die Deterioration Doubling Tutorial. http://goccf.com/t/336470
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 Posted 11/07/2018  12:10 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Bate to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Very nice E-n-V. Thanks for spending your time helping newbies all the time. You are #128077;
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 Posted 11/07/2018  12:19 am  Show Profile   Check Errers and Varietys's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add Errers and Varietys to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
You're welcome Bate! I'll be working on more stuff like this in the future.
Errers and Varietys.
More information about Die Deterioration? http://goccf.com/t/317950
Retired U.S. Mint Coin Die Set information. http://goccf.com/t/302961
1988 P LMC RDV-006, 1998 P LMC Wide AM, and 2000 P LMC Wide AM. http://goccf.com/t/327834 http://goccf.com/t/294303 http://goccf.com/t/312900
1973 D Lincoln Memorial cent With Recurring Die Subsidence Error Information. http://goccf.com/t/304624
Machine Doubling tutorial. http://goccf.com/t/332421
Die states progression on coins. Scroll down, so you can see the different die state progressions. http://goccf.com/t/325638
Die Deterioration Doubling Tutorial. http://goccf.com/t/336470
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 Posted 11/27/2018  3:18 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Mark1959 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
These are all of my images that I took and edited, using a program from Windows 10.


Bravo! Like the way you put the articles together to read. Now lets hope people will actually read them and try to learn.
Completed the Dansco 8166 Album
(1964-2011) Kennedy half w/Proofs on Dec 3rd.

Completed the Dansco 8167 Album
(2012-Date) Kennedy half w/Proofs on Dec 18th.


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 Posted 11/27/2018  3:23 pm  Show Profile   Check Errers and Varietys's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add Errers and Varietys to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Bravo! Like the way you put the articles together to read.


Thank you Mark!


Quote:
Now lets hope people will actually read them and try to learn.


I hope so Mark. Learning stuff like this is very important, as there's different types of doubling that exist.
Errers and Varietys.
More information about Die Deterioration? http://goccf.com/t/317950
Retired U.S. Mint Coin Die Set information. http://goccf.com/t/302961
1988 P LMC RDV-006, 1998 P LMC Wide AM, and 2000 P LMC Wide AM. http://goccf.com/t/327834 http://goccf.com/t/294303 http://goccf.com/t/312900
1973 D Lincoln Memorial cent With Recurring Die Subsidence Error Information. http://goccf.com/t/304624
Machine Doubling tutorial. http://goccf.com/t/332421
Die states progression on coins. Scroll down, so you can see the different die state progressions. http://goccf.com/t/325638
Die Deterioration Doubling Tutorial. http://goccf.com/t/336470
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 Posted 11/27/2018  4:05 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add coop to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Here is a side by side of the devices on this thread:


Richard S. Cooper
Some have asked about my images I use and I'm glad to say, you can now you can see the DVD in sections on youtube:
1. Intro, older coins, toned coins 2. Doubled dies 3. Die events, One of a kind errors 4. So called errors, Coin information 5. Coin information Types and Varieties, Overlays
Jefferson nickel doubled dies Wexler/Rebar complete listings

trail dies:http://www.traildies.com/
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 Posted 11/27/2018  4:13 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Jim0815 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Nice write up David!
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 Posted 11/27/2018  8:03 pm  Show Profile   Check Errers and Varietys's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add Errers and Varietys to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thank you Coop and Jim! Coop, thank you for putting together the images!
Errers and Varietys.
More information about Die Deterioration? http://goccf.com/t/317950
Retired U.S. Mint Coin Die Set information. http://goccf.com/t/302961
1988 P LMC RDV-006, 1998 P LMC Wide AM, and 2000 P LMC Wide AM. http://goccf.com/t/327834 http://goccf.com/t/294303 http://goccf.com/t/312900
1973 D Lincoln Memorial cent With Recurring Die Subsidence Error Information. http://goccf.com/t/304624
Machine Doubling tutorial. http://goccf.com/t/332421
Die states progression on coins. Scroll down, so you can see the different die state progressions. http://goccf.com/t/325638
Die Deterioration Doubling Tutorial. http://goccf.com/t/336470
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 Posted 11/28/2018  02:21 am  Show Profile   Check spruett001's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add spruett001 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
This is a nice start for MD education!
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 Posted 11/28/2018  05:39 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add coop to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Seeing helps us to understand what we're seeing on coins.when you understand what we are talking about when we say reduced devices, then knowledge of seeing it helps new ones to see that it in not doubling, but reduction of normal sized devices are what they are seeing? When the right images come along, it helps. Seeing is believing.
Richard S. Cooper
Some have asked about my images I use and I'm glad to say, you can now you can see the DVD in sections on youtube:
1. Intro, older coins, toned coins 2. Doubled dies 3. Die events, One of a kind errors 4. So called errors, Coin information 5. Coin information Types and Varieties, Overlays
Jefferson nickel doubled dies Wexler/Rebar complete listings

trail dies:http://www.traildies.com/
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United States
14642 Posts
 Posted 11/28/2018  5:20 pm  Show Profile   Check Errers and Varietys's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add Errers and Varietys to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thank you Spruett and Coop! And yes Coop, it's much better to see it, than to explain it with no pictures. It's much easier to understand this way. It even helps me understand it better as well!
Errers and Varietys.
More information about Die Deterioration? http://goccf.com/t/317950
Retired U.S. Mint Coin Die Set information. http://goccf.com/t/302961
1988 P LMC RDV-006, 1998 P LMC Wide AM, and 2000 P LMC Wide AM. http://goccf.com/t/327834 http://goccf.com/t/294303 http://goccf.com/t/312900
1973 D Lincoln Memorial cent With Recurring Die Subsidence Error Information. http://goccf.com/t/304624
Machine Doubling tutorial. http://goccf.com/t/332421
Die states progression on coins. Scroll down, so you can see the different die state progressions. http://goccf.com/t/325638
Die Deterioration Doubling Tutorial. http://goccf.com/t/336470
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