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1922 Peace Dollar - Is This Really Contemporary Counterfeit?

 
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
12773 Posts
 Posted 02/14/2019  4:19 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add basebal21 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
The ring, rather than the ping per se is quite a good way to discriminate a coin's composition if you have a good ear


The "ping" test is one of the most worthless tests. You can have enough silver without the full amount to get that sound
Fire A.J. Preller
Pillar of the Community
United States
3563 Posts
 Posted 02/14/2019  7:20 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add ExoGuy to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
The "ping" test is one of the most worthless tests. You can have enough silver without the full amount to get that sound


To my experience, this statement doesn't ring true. Some years ago now, I spotted what appeared to be a circa 1795 Conder token at a Florida flea market. It's an ever popular kneeling slave variety. It had the color of silver. The ping test was high pitched, so I bought it. Long story, short, Larry Briggs of SEGS performed a specific gravity test on it, three times. Then, he certified it as silver.

I've yet to see another silver one. Had it not been for the ping-ring, I'd not have this rare token. There have been other times when the ping test proved useful to me. Of course, it can't compare to a more scientific method of testing, but it's surely not "worthless" to me.


Pillar of the Community
United States
947 Posts
 Posted 02/14/2019  8:46 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add llewellin to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
The "ping" test is one of the most worthless tests. You can have enough silver without the full amount to get that sound


The ring of a coin when flipped depends on several properties of the coin, most chiefly the geometry and the speed of sound in the metal (also a frequency-dependent transmission coefficient into air). This cannot be fully reproduced by a different alloy than the correct one, in the exact proper size+shape of coin. Even enough wear will affect the ring.

Sure you can get a silver-like ping when jangling a coin that is not the correct alloy, but that's not what I'm talking about. You flip/ring the question coin and a known true one and listen for differences. There's some variability introduced by the way you strike the coin but in my experience this is a really good way of sorting coins based on alloy and picking out fake copper-cored morgans.
Bedrock of the Community
United States
12773 Posts
 Posted 02/15/2019  09:35 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add basebal21 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
This cannot be fully reproduced by a different alloy than the correct one, in the exact proper size+shape of coin. Even enough wear will affect the ring.


True, but it really just needs to be close enough.

My point was really that it's not a test that should be relied on for authentication or something that should be considered scientific.
Fire A.J. Preller
Pillar of the Community
United States
1484 Posts
 Posted 02/16/2019  11:14 pm  Show Profile   Check colonialjohn's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add colonialjohn to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
In my recent book "Forgotten Coins" I do a whole chapter on how to determine a Modern Chinese fake as compared to a contemporary circulating counterfeit of the period. One sign is the weight to regal. Most modern Chinese fakes are Fe/Ni, German Silver (Cu/Zn/Ni) or debased silver from my research on over 100 different pieces of various U.S. series. These will ring DIFFERENTLY than 90% silver such as German Silver having a lower pitch than 90% silver with the ring test. As one post recently suggested in this thread these early CCCs may have been made of tin/Lead (Sn/Pb). Its really a study of each series and then gaining/building a data base and the knowledge to differentiate between these Modern Chinese fakes and CCCs of the period - series by series based on your collecting interests. It can be complex. This appears to be a CCC or a Sn/Pb alloy based on the photo. John Lorenzo.
Edited by colonialjohn
02/17/2019 12:14 am
Pillar of the Community
United States
1933 Posts
 Posted 02/17/2019  12:01 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Tunnioc to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Maybe try a tissue test also.
Edited by Tunnioc
02/17/2019 12:03 am
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