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Coin Shop Coin, Grade Came Back Cleaned.

 
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Valued Member

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97 Posts
 Posted 03/23/2019  8:38 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add PilcrowsCoins to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
Any of you have this problem before? Anything you can do about it?

My father got me a coin a couple years ago that I put in a safe. I sent it to PCGS for grading. I wanted it slabbed
and protected/safe/not for sale ect. Curious to see what grade it would get.

Got my grade back and it came back Genuine UNC detail - cleaned. It's a 1909 VDB. Bummed when I seen that. It could of graded AU10 for all I care. But thought it would get a MS64-65.. Maybe even higher. It is a beautiful coin. But knowing the slab won't have a MS on it or a grade really. Kind of sucks. I heard cleaned coins are considered au58-ms60. Not sure if there is truth to that.

I'll hold on to the coin since it was a gift from my dad. But kind of annoyed coin shops can get away with doing stuff like this. If they sale an item for a premium, that item should be legit.
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 Posted 03/23/2019  8:47 pm  Show Profile   Check GrapeCollects's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add GrapeCollects to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
PCGS has been handing out cleaned and questionable color designations like candy canes on christmas as of late
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 Posted 03/23/2019  8:54 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jimbucks to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The coin shop may not have known it was cleaned. It's not a high priced or scarce coin, so don't let it bother you too much. If it is important to you to have a genuine uncleaned coin, then you should buy one already in a slab (and there are plenty of cleaned coins in them too).

Edited by jimbucks
03/23/2019 8:55 pm
Valued Member
United States
97 Posts
 Posted 03/23/2019  9:05 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add PilcrowsCoins to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
So what you are saying is I picked a bad time to grade my coins? lol ;)
The coins are in the mail and should be here monday or tuesday and I'll post it. Seen the grades online.
Didn't do well on my others either. One did get a ms RD64. Which I think it should be a 67 or higher. It's mint under a microscope.
But I guess they seen something I didn't or they just didn't want my first graded coin to be worth $13000.00 lol
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 Posted 03/23/2019  9:09 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Coinfrog to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Let's start with pics, please.
Valued Member
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 Posted 03/23/2019  9:13 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add PilcrowsCoins to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
jimbucks: I think they cleaned it. It came from a company that ended up being shutdown for a ponzi scheme here in utah. My dads been going to them for decades too. He bought the coin from there. It's a nice coin. Happy to still own it. Would of been cooler if it got a MS68 or higher on it though lol.
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 Posted 03/23/2019  9:28 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add basebal21 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Any of you have this problem before? Anything you can do about it?


Depends how the coin was cleaned and how bad it is. Sometimes it can be conserved other times there's not really anything you can do


Quote:
I heard cleaned coins are considered au58-ms60. Not sure if there is truth to that


It's not. They can a lot of different grades.


Quote:
The coin shop may not have known it was cleaned.


While it's possible that is true, it's their job to know. Numerous shops sell details coins raw as problem free coins to get more money
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 Posted 03/23/2019  9:30 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add basebal21 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
or they just didn't want my first graded coin to be worth $13000.00 lol


They don't care about that.


Quote:
It came from a company that ended up being shutdown for a ponzi scheme here in utah.


That tells you all you really need to know about the situation
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 Posted 03/23/2019  9:35 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add llewellin to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
I heard cleaned coins are considered au58-ms60. Not sure if there is truth to that.


Depends on the severity of the cleaning - this could be true for a high MS coin that was just overdipped but still has luster. But in general UNC details cleaned coins are not considered anywhere near AU58 or MS60, value is often cut in half or more..

We'd need to see good photos of your coin to know if the coins were fairly graded. Oftentimes people think their coins are a much higher grade than they actually are.
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 Posted 03/23/2019  9:37 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Coinfrog to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
What are we talking about? Pics please!
Valued Member
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 Posted 03/23/2019  9:57 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add PilcrowsCoins to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Coinfrog, I'll post pictures of the slab next week. They shipped out yesterday from PCGS.
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 Posted 03/23/2019  10:01 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add PilcrowsCoins to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
basebal21: The company was opened for something like 50+ years. It was one of, if not the biggest coin shops in utah. With it being in business that long. I'm sure they have coins in slabs all over the place that didn't get detected. Which is really bad for the hobby. I was hoping they sold coins legit and the ponzi scheme was a "side" business. But, looks like they were running a full blown operation. Look up Rust Rare Coins.
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 Posted 03/23/2019  10:05 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add basebal21 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
The company was opened for something like 50+ years. It was one of, if not the biggest coin shops in utah. With it being in business that long. I'm sure they have coins in slabs all over the place that didn't get detected.


I saw the story. There's a reason why certain things are sold how they are. They didn't get doctored coins into slabs all over the place, the legitimate and especially the first tier TPGs aren't amateurs.

It's sad what had happened, but there doesn't need to be a greater TPG concern out of it. The really tragic part is all the people that lost all that money.

That's a good example of one of the things I have tried to explain for a long time but doesn't always get received well. Just because someone has a store or a table at the show, or is behind the counter doesn't mean they are honest or your friend or aren't trying to take advantage of you.
Edited by basebal21
03/23/2019 10:11 pm
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 Posted 03/23/2019  10:35 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add westernsky to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
That Utah coin shop WAS a reputable place at one time. I knew the founder and bought many coins from him back in the 80's when I lived in Utah. The place went to the toilet when some of his kids took over. Money does funny things to people; needing more money does even funnier things to people.

As far as the particular coin that your Dad gave you treasure it no matter what it grades. It's a gift.
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 Posted 03/23/2019  11:08 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add PilcrowsCoins to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Baseball21: there should be a little concern about it though. I'm sure others are out there that bought coins from this shop. They haven't gotten them graded yet. Maybe sitting on them like I was. To then invest the money getting it slabbed, for it to be a cleaned, un-gradable coin. I spent about $220 just to get 4 coins graded. Plus what ever my dad spent on this. I think it was $40-60 dollars. So $280 for 4 duds lol.

westernsky: yea, I plan on keeping it forever. Like I said, I'd be happy if it said AU60 on the slab. But to say "cleaned" and that's it, is kind of a bummer. So if I ever show it to someone, I have to tell them the back story of this lame shop my dad got the coin from cause the first thing they'll ask is "why does it say cleaned".
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 Posted 03/23/2019  11:13 pm  Show Profile   Check TNG's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add TNG to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
If it bothers you that much, bust it back out of the graded PCGS holder.

While you have it out, study the surfaces of the coin under high magnification and excellent lighting to see the evidence of cleaning. Learn why they assigned the designation and then put it in a coin capsule for safekeeping.
I agree, it's still a nice sentimental gift.
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