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What's Your Opinion On This Coins Grade? Livonian Solidus

 
 
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New Member
Canada
41 Posts
 Posted 05/14/2019  8:48 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add Leipeneier to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
Hello!
I'd like your opinions on this coin's grade,
Must be something high.



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United States
22287 Posts
 Posted 05/14/2019  9:21 pm  Show Profile   Check echizento's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add echizento to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
This is a common coin but the strike is a little better than most that I've seen. Detail is VF+ but the strike is off center. Overall grade I wood give it aVF.
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Australia
15259 Posts
 Posted 05/14/2019  10:03 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add sel_69l to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I agree with echizento.

Impossible to give it a Sheldon grade, would not make any sense.
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Canada
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 Posted 05/14/2019  10:27 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Leipeneier to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
OK, thanks
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United States
11092 Posts
 Posted 05/14/2019  10:57 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Spence to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I would also note that unfortunate edge chip on the 2x2. So many of these were struck off-center, but yours is a pretty decent coin.
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United States
1881 Posts
 Posted 05/16/2019  3:03 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add tdziemia to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Very nice 1620 solidus! (at the time, this part of Livonia was ruled by the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth).
As mentioned by others, this is a common coin, and not very valuable even in fairly high grades, but I would be proud to have such a nice one in my collection.

For reference, here are three examples recently graded and sold by WCN:
AU: https://wcn.pl/archive/165928?q=polska+ryga+1620+
EF+ : https://wcn.pl/archive/178108?q=polska+ryga+1620+
EF- : https://wcn.pl/archive/169519?q=polska+ryga+1620+

None of these sold for more than $15 including the buyer's premium.
Edited by tdziemia
05/16/2019 3:06 pm
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United States
1881 Posts
 Posted 05/16/2019  3:18 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add tdziemia to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Impossible to give it a Sheldon grade, would not make any sense.


It doesn't stop NGC. Currently up for auction at Marciniak is a collection of 53 Livonian solidi, all graded by NGC. Here is another 1620: https://onebid.pl/en/auction/523/lo...ewo-NGC-ms62
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Australia
15259 Posts
 Posted 05/16/2019  9:32 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add sel_69l to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Sheldon works well for U.S. coins, and can be made to work reasonably well for any modern machine made coin.
Below are some of the reasons why Sheldon does not work properly with other than modern coins.

Perhaps it is reasonable to consider that Sheldon himself had never given any thought about the grading other than U.S. coins.

There are quite a few additional factors that have to be taken into account when grading hammered milled coins and ancient coins. The influence that these additional factors can have, can vary widely between the different methods of coin production.

Modern coins are stuck from planchets, that are prepared from blanks,
most milled coins (but not all), were struck from blanks only,
ancient coins were struck from flans, which had a variety of methods of being made.

Additional factors include:
1. Corrosion (as opposed to wear),
2. Evenness of the flan (for example: Spanish cob coins),
3. Completeness of detail including legends, as a result of (2) above,
4. Quality of the die cutting
5. Cleaning (almost all ancient coins recovered form ground burial require cleaning)
6. Flan splits if present:- their number, extent, and severity.
7. Edge clipping (this can especially apply to hammered coins with thin flans.)

Some or most of these factors may have to be taken into account to give a grade for an other than modern coin.

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 Posted 05/17/2019  01:50 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add tdziemia to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Agree on all those points.

As we've discussed on the grading threads, I see many 16th/17th c. Poland coins, like these Riga shillings, graded these days.
I guess the TPGs must have some rules for dealing with those "defects" you mention (edge clips, flan spplits, etc. that are nt post-mint damage), in addition to rules for taking into account the quality of strike, presence of original luster (common on nicer examples of these issues like the OP's), etc.

Whatever those rules are, in some cases it results in coins with relatively low eye appeal getting MS grades, which I agree sounds like something Sheldon would never have expected of his system.
Edited by tdziemia
05/17/2019 01:58 am
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