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Controversial 1959 D Lincoln Cent Mule (Coin World Article)

 
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20672 Posts
 Posted 05/21/2019  01:22 am Show Profile   Check Errers and Varietys's eBay Listings Bookmark this topic Add Errers and Varietys to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
I just want to share this on CCF. It's the very controversial mule cent that will be going up for auction on June 2nd. It has a very interesting history and story behind it. https://www.coinworld.com/news/us-c...ion.all.html
More information about Die Deterioration? http://goccf.com/t/317950
Retired U.S. Mint Coin Die Set information. http://goccf.com/t/302961
1988 P LMC RDV-006, 1998 P LMC Wide AM, and 2000 P LMC Wide AM. http://goccf.com/t/327834 http://goccf.com/t/294303 http://goccf.com/t/312900
1973 D Lincoln Memorial cent With Recurring Die Subsidence Error Information. http://goccf.com/t/304624
Machine Doubling tutorial. http://goccf.com/t/332421
Die states progression on coins. Scroll down, so you can see the different die state progressions. http://goccf.com/t/325638
Die Deterioration Doubling Tutorial. http://goccf.com/t/336470
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Canada
2499 Posts
 Posted 05/21/2019  05:11 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add oriole to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Considering all the other funny things that have been certified, I wonder why the hesitation with this item?
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 Posted 05/21/2019  11:57 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Coinfrog to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Good question.

Thanks for the link.
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 Posted 05/21/2019  12:18 pm  Show Profile   Check Errers and Varietys's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add Errers and Varietys to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thank you oriole and Coinfrog. If I was rich, I still won't buy this item, do to the very controversial nature of this coin.
More information about Die Deterioration? http://goccf.com/t/317950
Retired U.S. Mint Coin Die Set information. http://goccf.com/t/302961
1988 P LMC RDV-006, 1998 P LMC Wide AM, and 2000 P LMC Wide AM. http://goccf.com/t/327834 http://goccf.com/t/294303 http://goccf.com/t/312900
1973 D Lincoln Memorial cent With Recurring Die Subsidence Error Information. http://goccf.com/t/304624
Machine Doubling tutorial. http://goccf.com/t/332421
Die states progression on coins. Scroll down, so you can see the different die state progressions. http://goccf.com/t/325638
Die Deterioration Doubling Tutorial. http://goccf.com/t/336470
Valued Member
United States
357 Posts
 Posted 05/21/2019  12:33 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Big-Kingdom to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I think the hesitation stems from no others being found for the first 30 years of it being out there supposedly, and this one turning up in the 1980s.

I also think the main hesitation is why isn't there any more struck like this turning up for the last 60 years when die pairs are set and strike thousands upon thousands of coins before being retired, and highly unlikely the pair was installed on accident, to strike just one example like this that stayed MS for 30 years in secret.

I think for the most part, they feel it's likely a mint workers shenanigans and they don't want to attribute it as legitimate, or it struck later on a blank copper planchet with dies outside the mint and not legitimate. Whatever it is about the coin, it's made every grader feel uncomfortable to attribute it for some reason, and those two possibilities seem the most likely reasons.

I mean, should be more of these mules out there to turn up in the last 60 years if done on accident in the minting process.
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 Posted 05/21/2019  12:40 pm  Show Profile   Check Errers and Varietys's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add Errers and Varietys to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Big-Kingdom, that's a good point. If it's genuine, then it probably was most likely intentionally made.
More information about Die Deterioration? http://goccf.com/t/317950
Retired U.S. Mint Coin Die Set information. http://goccf.com/t/302961
1988 P LMC RDV-006, 1998 P LMC Wide AM, and 2000 P LMC Wide AM. http://goccf.com/t/327834 http://goccf.com/t/294303 http://goccf.com/t/312900
1973 D Lincoln Memorial cent With Recurring Die Subsidence Error Information. http://goccf.com/t/304624
Machine Doubling tutorial. http://goccf.com/t/332421
Die states progression on coins. Scroll down, so you can see the different die state progressions. http://goccf.com/t/325638
Die Deterioration Doubling Tutorial. http://goccf.com/t/336470
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United States
4444 Posts
 Posted 05/21/2019  12:45 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add westernsky to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
If one gets certified others that are currently hiding will magically start turning up.

Whomever made it (rogue mint employee, counterfeiter or ?) did not make just one.

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 Posted 05/21/2019  12:55 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add coop to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Looking at the rims, I feel it is questionable. Obverse is a bit MAD, the weakness on the rim is about 50% showing weakness. The dies do look like EDS dies, but I doubt there would be a fresh Wheat reverse available in 1959, unless they created a new one?


Reminds me of another mule coin:
Richard S. Cooper
Some have asked about my images I use and I'm glad to say, you can now you can see the DVD in sections on youtube:
1. Intro, older coins, toned coins 2. Doubled dies 3. Die events, One of a kind errors 4. So called errors, Coin information 5. Coin information Types and Varieties, Overlays
Jefferson nickel doubled dies Wexler/Rebar complete listings

trail dies:http://www.traildies.com/
Edited by coop
05/21/2019 1:01 pm
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 Posted 05/21/2019  1:20 pm  Show Profile   Check Errers and Varietys's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add Errers and Varietys to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Definitely a very strange cent for sure.
More information about Die Deterioration? http://goccf.com/t/317950
Retired U.S. Mint Coin Die Set information. http://goccf.com/t/302961
1988 P LMC RDV-006, 1998 P LMC Wide AM, and 2000 P LMC Wide AM. http://goccf.com/t/327834 http://goccf.com/t/294303 http://goccf.com/t/312900
1973 D Lincoln Memorial cent With Recurring Die Subsidence Error Information. http://goccf.com/t/304624
Machine Doubling tutorial. http://goccf.com/t/332421
Die states progression on coins. Scroll down, so you can see the different die state progressions. http://goccf.com/t/325638
Die Deterioration Doubling Tutorial. http://goccf.com/t/336470
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United States
4444 Posts
 Posted 05/21/2019  1:26 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add westernsky to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Considering all the other funny things that have been certified, I wonder why the hesitation with this item?


The liability of certifying this coin as a genuine mint product is too great if it is later proved to not be a genuine mint product.

There is an old saying: "When in doubt, don't!"
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United States
15393 Posts
 Posted 05/21/2019  2:10 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Conder101 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
The dies do look like EDS dies, but I doubt there would be a fresh Wheat reverse available in 1959, unless they created a new one?

Maybe not, but there would be in December of 1958 when they would be starting to produce a stock of 1959 cnets for the coming year. The mint starts making dies for the coming year usually in late Nov or early Dec and they often strike a stockpile of new coins to have on hand when the year changes. Same way the 1993 Close AM rev cent dies got paired with 1992 obv dies. Both die types were on hand at the end of the year.
Gary Schmidt
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 Posted 05/21/2019  6:07 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Bump111 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Apparently, this coin was certified as "genuine" by the U.S. Treasury. I didn't know they had authenticators on staff?

This isn't the first of these I've heard about but the first one I've actually seen. Hard to say how it may have happened...
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 Posted 05/21/2019  6:33 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Coinfrog to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I think sky nails it - the financial risk of certifying it would be considerable.

My bet is that it was clandestinely made. Can't think of another possibility that makes any sense.
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3266 Posts
 Posted 05/21/2019  6:46 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jimbucks to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Perhaps it was a test strike with new 1959 dies and the memorial reverse was not available.

However, this video discusses a convict admitting to having counterfeited it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H8emJWwaWWo
Edited by jimbucks
05/21/2019 7:02 pm
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 Posted 05/21/2019  7:19 pm  Show Profile   Check Errers and Varietys's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add Errers and Varietys to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
To be honest, I don't think it's real etheir.
More information about Die Deterioration? http://goccf.com/t/317950
Retired U.S. Mint Coin Die Set information. http://goccf.com/t/302961
1988 P LMC RDV-006, 1998 P LMC Wide AM, and 2000 P LMC Wide AM. http://goccf.com/t/327834 http://goccf.com/t/294303 http://goccf.com/t/312900
1973 D Lincoln Memorial cent With Recurring Die Subsidence Error Information. http://goccf.com/t/304624
Machine Doubling tutorial. http://goccf.com/t/332421
Die states progression on coins. Scroll down, so you can see the different die state progressions. http://goccf.com/t/325638
Die Deterioration Doubling Tutorial. http://goccf.com/t/336470
Pillar of the Community
United States
4444 Posts
 Posted 05/21/2019  10:06 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add westernsky to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The video mentions Mark Hoffman admitted to his daughter to counterfeiting this thing. Hoffman was good at counterfeiting coins, paper, Mormon memorabilia and murdering people. He fooled a lot of people with his forgeries. Would not surprise me at all if Hoffman really was the perp that made this coin.
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