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1914 H Florin Ebay - Opinions Invited Before I Report It.

 
 
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Valued Member
Australia
221 Posts
 Posted 06/08/2019  6:48 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add CoinOS to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
Hi.

The 1914h Australian florin is a rare and desirable coin for any collector of Australian predecimal silver coinage.
In terms of rarity, it's on par with the 1915 London florin, and the value of these two dates is only eclipsed by the 1932 florin.

This is a coin that I own several examples of and I look for them everywhere in good grades - I seen this one on eBay today and immediately decided it was fake.

The seller has an almost perfect four and a half thousand feedbacks and before I report this and have it removed, I am asking for other's opinions here - and any informed opinion is sincerely appreciated.

Here's the auction's photo of the reverse.
He/She are asking 1500 dollars for this:
273630530356

Edited by CoinOS
06/08/2019 6:52 pm
Bedrock of the Community
Australia
15398 Posts
 Posted 06/09/2019  12:57 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add sel_69l to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Now that you have asked me to suspect this coin, it looks like a pressure cast fake to my eye.
Top of the 'V' in ADVANCE AUSTRALIA is missing, surface texture at high magnification is grainy, the grass under the shield looks horrid.
I can understand why you are suspicious.

It is very good that you have several genuine examples, with which you can compare the suspect coin against.

The Chinese are getting better, but they are still not very good at it.
I would complain to them, that the quality of their products are still shoddy.
Valued Member
Australia
221 Posts
 Posted 06/09/2019  04:32 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add CoinOS to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
The Chinese are getting better, but they are still not very good at it


True, and I'm happy for that fact - they are a clear and present danger to the hobby. The first thing that drew may gaze instantly was the 9 - it's completely wrong.

That coin has more issues than popular mechanics and is rubbish.

My guess is it's a China 90% silver thing. (Typically China don't bother with accuracy and hitting 92.5% sterling).
If so it will pass an ear ping test but fail a frequency metered ping test.

My concern here is the possibility of a few sellers on eBay with relatively high traffic - moving many lower priced genuine items, and occasionally inserting a high value counterfeit.

Any experienced Australian coin dealer absolutely should know a genuine coin from Chinese junk - and it's time for some serious scrutiny.

To report the coin and see the listing vanish as I have so often done with others saves one person's wallet, but it doesn't solve the problem.

There are not as many online China outlets doing this as there were a year ago. They have been contacted by a few collectors with a blunt message.

A year back here I said no issue with buying copy coins for display, and on reflection, I'd stand by that - with the caveat that all coins have been treated with one of these and a hammer:

Bedrock of the Community
Australia
15398 Posts
 Posted 06/09/2019  06:05 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add sel_69l to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
XRF would easily reveal if 90% or 92.5% silver, but that is of little importance in this case.
Valued Member
Australia
479 Posts
 Posted 06/09/2019  8:48 pm  Show Profile   Check ryurazu's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add ryurazu to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
wow you should have a look at the observer tho that looks terrible, would be surprise if silver tho.
Edited by ryurazu
06/09/2019 8:49 pm
Valued Member
Australia
221 Posts
 Posted 06/09/2019  9:19 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add CoinOS to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
wow you should have a look at the observer tho that looks terrible, would be surprise if silver tho


Here is the coin's obverse in all it's glory.



I'm in no hurry to report this - due to it's price tag.
It's unlikely to sell.

I have stated on multiple occasions on this forum - eBay feedback means Nothing


Quote:
would be surprise if silver tho


Yes it might be an alloy of common metals, hard to say.

#

Edited by CoinOS
06/10/2019 11:09 am
Valued Member
Australia
94 Posts
 Posted 06/11/2019  9:54 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add serenitystan to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
"GEEZ" I just bought a Australian 1952 one pound note from this seller described as Crisp Unc. If no good will be returning for refund. I just keep returning them until I get a nice one. I have given sellers a negative feedback only to check later on that it has been removed. How I do not know..Most people who collect Aussie two bobs think the 32 is the rarest, WRONG!!. Have seen plenty of 32 florins around in Unc. The 1915 in Unc is the hardest to find, why I do not know as half a million where minted. A old digger I knew back in the sixties told me that the Aussie solders in the Great War where payed with a huge consignment of silver 1915 florins while fighting overseas..
Valued Member
Australia
221 Posts
 Posted 06/13/2019  04:06 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add CoinOS to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Most people who collect Aussie two bobs think the 32 is the rarest, WRONG!!. Have seen plenty of 32 florins around in Unc. The 1915 in Unc is the hardest to find, why I do not know as half a million where minted


There are stories of that (and others) coin's destiny, but they are not verifiable by a quick Google search. A lot of digging is needed. The 1932's survived, the 1915's didn't, and the original mintage of 500,000 is no indicator how many there are today. I suspect only a small percentage of that still exist and very few at EF or better.


Quote:
Aussie solders in the Great War where payed with a huge consignment of silver 1915 florins while fighting overseas..


Interesting and very possible. I was told ages ago that a wartime debt owed to the US was paid with Australian Silver florins, and there melted for silver. I know with certainty that a huge no. of 1910 florins wound up in New Guinea ("Territory of Papua" at the time). No idea what became of those...

Australian collectors have always known which dates are valuable. This is from 1965 and shows the 1915L in EF valued at 400 Shillings [20].



All the teen year florins are valuable except the 1916/1917 and 1918 which are easy to find - nice 1919's are desirable.

In very high grades, the 1912 is super-rare and all of these dates in MS grades cost a small fortune. These dates do not need to be MS graded to be investment grade and anything with an AU grade or better is rare and valuable.

Only 55 slabbed and graded 1915L florins exist of which only 17 are in MS grade.

I am inclined to agree with you on your claim that the 1915 London florin is Australia's best florin and hardest to acquire in nice grades. I'd put the 1914h second and the 1932 third.

It is a rare bird indeed and collectors with premium examples are a members of a very small club.
Pillar of the Community
Australia
685 Posts
 Posted 06/13/2019  06:35 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add nealeffendi to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Plenty of 1915s survive, but in very ordinary (2 pearl below G grade) condition. Even in F grade though they are hard to find. Of course the 32 would be easier to find as it had 17 years less circulation. Might have also been a few stashed away in hoards or rolls.
Pillar of the Community
Australia
564 Posts
 Posted 06/13/2019  06:42 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Basil to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Might have also been a few stashed away in hoards or rolls.


Stating the obvious but depression years meant huge changes in spending habits,those that could hoarded Gold & Silver.
FDR put in place how much Gold an individual could store but we(Oz) missed that one.
Pillar of the Community
Australia
1335 Posts
 Posted 06/14/2019  9:25 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Mr T to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
FDR put in place how much Gold an individual could store but we(Oz) missed that one.


I think Australia did have those limits for a while - not sure when they started but I think it ended in the 1970s.
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