Coin Community Family of Web Sites
Like us on Facebook! Subscribe to our Youtube Channel! Check out our Twitter! Check out our Pinterest!
Username:
Password:
Save Password
Forgot your Password?

Welcome Guest! Need help? Got a question? Inherit some coins?
Our coin forum is completely free! Register Now!

I Have Two 1859 Pennies. Are These Any Rare Varieties?

 
Next Page
 
To participate in the forum you must log in or register.
Author Previous Topic Topic Next Topic
Page: of 2
Pillar of the Community
United States
1198 Posts
 Posted 10/08/2019  6:00 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add 0xDA71D to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
New Member
Canada
23 Posts
 Posted 10/08/2019  7:49 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Sid Belzberg to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I have to ask, what's with the black and white photos? Why not color? The first one looks sort of interesting as both the 5 and 9 appear to be reengraved. I will leave it to the specialists in large cents to comment further.
Pillar of the Community
Learn More...
United States
902 Posts
 Posted 10/08/2019  8:59 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add fortcollins to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The photos are a bit too grainy when enlarged to make any useful IDs. The 1859 cents make for wonderful hours chasing the Haxby die varieties.

On your first coin, I see a likely repunched "N" in CANADA and several key markers on the reverse: repaired loop on leaf 2, large break on the loop on leaf 7, no stem on leaf 8, likely Group J or Group P repair on leaf 9. There is also a large die break through leaf 10 and a likely repunched "1" in the date.

Your second coin has distinctive repunched "Gs" in GRATIA and in REGINA. Most likely, that would make that coin Obverse 7, 23, or 54.

That should get you started on your search.

Warning: Haxby hunting can be habit-forming.
Edited by fortcollins
10/08/2019 9:00 pm
Pillar of the Community
Learn More...
United States
2587 Posts
 Posted 10/09/2019  07:32 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add okiecoiner to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Strictly speaking from a "variety" standpoint, I see nothing scarce or rare. Now, the die-tracking capability to be found on the Haxby site may show that one of these is a hard-to-find die pair but, from a true variety standpoint, it's just a pair of narrow 9 1859's .. however, the 1st 5 is interesting if it's not post-mint damage. Beter photos would help .. both have been heavily cleaned.
Pillar of the Community
United States
704 Posts
 Posted 10/09/2019  08:41 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Phil310 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Here is a link to the Haxby site if you don't already have it.

On October 15, there will be a new feature in the catalog showing the rarity rating of each die pair, so if you learn to ID the Haxby die pair, you will then know if it is common or rare.

If you have trouble identifying them, we will help. fortcollins has given you some idea of the kind of things to look for when attributing 1859 N9's.

https://www.vickycents.com/
Edited by Phil310
10/09/2019 4:23 pm
Pillar of the Community
Learn More...
United States
2587 Posts
 Posted 10/09/2019  11:07 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add okiecoiner to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Although it's just a matter of syntax or definition, almost all of Haxby's die-tracking anomalies are NOT varieties, they are errors or just different dies or die marriages. A "variety" is a change from a normal (or initial) die that the mint uses to strike coins that come out different from those previously used. Those varieties can be mods to the portrait, legends, spacings, dates, etc that are done on purpose. Even Machine Doubling is an error and not a variety, but repunches ARE varieties and are directed by the foreman on the floor. Die cracks, breaks, cuds, rotations, off-centers, etc are all errors and some make for great "markers" to easily track or ID true varieties. The Haxby site is a great place to start 1859 study. I, personally, don't use it .. I'm into straight varieties, not die pairs.
Edited by okiecoiner
10/09/2019 11:11 am
Pillar of the Community
New Zealand
1442 Posts
 Posted 10/09/2019  1:54 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add fourmack to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The last 1 is possibly PC59-202
Look at leaf 9 stem and check for die cracks as they help re markers.
https://www.vickycents.com/rev-e22a.html
Cheers Don

Vickies cents and GB Farthings nut.
"Old" is a figure of speech and nothing more
Edited by fourmack
10/09/2019 1:57 pm
Valued Member
Canada
231 Posts
 Posted 10/10/2019  09:00 am  Show Profile   Check NumisCat's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add NumisCat to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
"Die cracks, breaks, cuds, rotations, off-centers, etc are all errors and some make for great "markers" to easily track or ID true varieties."

Die cracks, breaks, and cuds are not errors. They indicate different die states and inevitably develop with extended use.
Pillar of the Community
United States
704 Posts
 Posted 10/10/2019  11:16 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Phil310 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
As best I can tell from your photos, your first coin looks to be Haxby obverse 54a and reverse J13b.

The second coin looks like Haxby obverse 20a and reverse E22a (fourmack already gave you a link to that reverse page). The broken left foot on the A of REGINA indicates it is obverse 20a instead of obverse 20.

You might want to check those pages out and compare the actual coins to see if they match.

If those do turn out to be the actual die pairs for your coins, they are both fairly common die pairs.
Pillar of the Community
Learn More...
United States
2587 Posts
 Posted 10/10/2019  12:24 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add okiecoiner to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Numiscat ... I was just trying to differentiate one of the threads that implied that all the Haxby entries were "varieties", which they are not.
Valued Member
Canada
231 Posts
 Posted 10/10/2019  1:26 pm  Show Profile   Check NumisCat's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add NumisCat to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
No worries. I only mention it because it's a misconception I have noticed in Canada. A lot of Canadian collectors tend to talk about die cracks, breaks, cuds, and clashes as varieties or errors, for whatever reason, when they are only reflective of die states. Just trying to clear that up.
Pillar of the Community
United States
704 Posts
 Posted 10/10/2019  1:31 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Phil310 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
but repunches ARE varieties


Bill, by this definition all 1859's would be varieties, because as far as I know, every die had some repunches and also almost all of the reverse dies had recut stems and vines.

Granted, many of them would be called minor varieties, unless you happen to be a collector of die pairs and then there is no such thing as a minor variety. Every difference in the manufacture of the die establishes it as a uniquely prepared die.

I usually call the Haxby numbers "die pairs" rather than "varieties" (even though I personally think either term would be correct) just to avoid any confusion with collectors who share your opinion. Sometimes I forget, as I did in my previous comment, but I edited it to read "die pairs" now.

By the way, welcome back. We missed you.



Valued Member
United States
262 Posts
 Posted 10/12/2019  12:38 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add JHax to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Also, every 1859 N9 die had the 9 punched into it by hand. The position of this digit, therefore, varies, sometimes quite noticeably. There again, we technically have a new variety with every position of the 9. While it is certainly true that date digit position differences and repunched letters/digits are trivial varieties, they are true varieties just the same. And things like die collapses, cuds, die clashes and die cracks that do not create different varieties can nonetheless be most useful as die markers for those of us who care about such things.
Pillar of the Community
United States
596 Posts
 Posted 10/12/2019  07:34 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add joecoin to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
The Haxby site is a great place to start 1859 study. I, personally, don't use it ..


What do you use for attribution?
Pillar of the Community
Learn More...
United States
2587 Posts
 Posted 10/12/2019  08:01 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add okiecoiner to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
joecoin .... I use my 40+ years of collecting '59 varieties and by exchanging research data with other collectors in our fairly small niche. I just use the common (or recognized) name and put it on the holder. It was our small group that got Charlton to recognize, and put in the front pages, the DP#3, #4, #5 and 9/6 after we wrote the Vicky variety section for the 65th Charlton. That edition is now extremely hard to find because everyone kept them and, when you do, you'll need a thick wallet. I don't think that there has ever been a recognized '59 variety that I don't (or used to)have. Almost the same for the rest of the Vicky varieties..... I have thousands.

Haxby's is a great site, but I'm not a die tracker and I prefer to use common, logical names for a variety, rather than groups or numbers.
Valued Member
United States
262 Posts
 Posted 10/12/2019  9:49 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add JHax to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
And I, too, prefer logical names for varieties. But in a die catalog like my 1859 site or even in cases like the "multiple" 1896 far 6 cent varieties common names can be problematic.
Page: of 2 Previous Topic Topic Next Topic  
 
To participate in the forum you must log in or register.

Coin Community Member eBay Sales

Certified Coins   Certified VAMs   Certified Errors  




Disclaimer: While a tremendous amount of effort goes into ensuring the accuracy of the information contained in this site, Coin Community assumes no liability for errors. Copyright 2005 - 2019 Coin Community Family- all rights reserved worldwide. Use of any images or content on this website without prior written permission of Coin Community or the original lender is strictly prohibited.
Contact Us  |  Advertise Here  |  Privacy Policy / Terms of Use

Coin Community Forum © 2005 - 2019 Coin Community Forums
It took 1.27 seconds to rattle this change. Powered By: Snitz Forums 2000 Version 3.4.05