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Barber Dime Weird Error, I Really Need Help With This.

 
 
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183 Posts
 Posted 10/21/2019  4:41 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add yontan to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
I recently purchased a 1908 Barber dime because the error looked very challenging. Boy, was I right. In the pictures you will see half the date lying in a slight depression, with a deep, straight mark on top of the right side of America. On the reverse, there are mirror image marks, with the depression to the left - but the deep, straight mark is exactly opposite the obverse mark. I have no idea what happened to this coin. Please tell me what you think. The angle pics are to show complete edge. The coin weight is 2.2 grams.





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 Posted 10/21/2019  5:34 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add USSID18 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Man, I have no idea. But I love it! No idea what you call it, Planchet flaw? Some kind if cud? Others will know. It's definitely an error coin that happened during the minting process. Nice pick-up!!
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Edited by USSID18
10/21/2019 5:36 pm
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 Posted 10/21/2019  5:57 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add moxking to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Huh. No clue. Ill check back to see what E&V and/or Coop has to say. Or anyone, for that matter.
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 Posted 10/21/2019  6:13 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add coop to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
First can you see under that area? The last two images makes me think it is hollow. What is the weight? Makes me wonder if there was a hole in the coin and was soldered over that area on both sides?


Richard S. Cooper
Some have asked about my images I use and I'm glad to say, you can now you can see the DVD in sections on youtube:
1. Intro, older coins, toned coins 2. Doubled dies 3. Die events, One of a kind errors 4. So called errors, Coin information 5. Coin information Types and Varieties, Overlays
Jefferson nickel doubled dies Wexler/Rebar complete listings

trail dies:http://www.traildies.com/
Edited by coop
10/21/2019 7:41 pm
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 Posted 10/21/2019  6:30 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Coinfrog to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Sure beats me.
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 Posted 10/21/2019  7:01 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add january1may to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Makes me wonder if there was a hole in the coin and was soldered over that area on both sides?
this, followed by a lot of wear, sounds the most plausible to me. A mint error probably wouldn't result in a cud-like thing on both sides like that.

But it's not like I know much about exotic mint errors...
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 Posted 10/21/2019  7:34 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add sel_69l to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
A major delamination of the die(s), not the coin. Part of the die face has actually fallen off, much like a minor cud.
Pity it is so worn; it is a major error. Re cut date (probably 8 over 3 for a variety), helps.

Individual error coins were manually searched for and discarded for re melt by mint employees, in the era in which this coin was made.
Therefore,
it escapes my reasoning as to why this coin escaped into circulation and remained so, until being worn down to the condition in which it now happens to be.
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 Posted 10/21/2019  7:46 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add coop to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
As you can see on an overlay, the affected areas are back to back. More like there was a hole in the coin and it was filled. That sounds like a theory. The must have like the reverse better than the obverse to show. (More design)
Richard S. Cooper
Some have asked about my images I use and I'm glad to say, you can now you can see the DVD in sections on youtube:
1. Intro, older coins, toned coins 2. Doubled dies 3. Die events, One of a kind errors 4. So called errors, Coin information 5. Coin information Types and Varieties, Overlays
Jefferson nickel doubled dies Wexler/Rebar complete listings

trail dies:http://www.traildies.com/
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 Posted 10/21/2019  7:51 pm  Show Profile   Check GrapeCollects's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add GrapeCollects to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I think it's a cud of some sort. Or maybe some for of duel mirrored die damage? I dunno.
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 Posted 10/21/2019  7:54 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add coop to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Questions:
1. Why would the trench area next to the rim be filled on both sides of the coin. Altered coin.
2. When was the last time you've seen a straight cud on both sides of the coin?
Richard S. Cooper
Some have asked about my images I use and I'm glad to say, you can now you can see the DVD in sections on youtube:
1. Intro, older coins, toned coins 2. Doubled dies 3. Die events, One of a kind errors 4. So called errors, Coin information 5. Coin information Types and Varieties, Overlays
Jefferson nickel doubled dies Wexler/Rebar complete listings

trail dies:http://www.traildies.com/
Edited by coop
10/21/2019 7:56 pm
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United States
409 Posts
 Posted 10/21/2019  8:11 pm  Show Profile   Check Onedollarbillnut's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add Onedollarbillnut to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Almost looks like someone tried to cut it with some kind of snips
Tim Hughes
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 Posted 10/22/2019  12:37 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Conder101 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Possibly the dies came together with a hard straight edged object between the causing die dent damage to both dies. That would result in that area of the dies being further apart resulting in a straight edged area of weakness on both sides.
Gary Schmidt
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United States
183 Posts
 Posted 10/22/2019  9:58 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add yontan to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks to everyone for your thoughts. I too cannot figure it out. I would love to be able to say for sure that this coin is altered, but I have a nagging doubt. Just the fact that the date is in a depression, and so are the leaves on the reverse, and, if you look carefully, you can see these things rising to the "top".As to a hole- while I have no doubt there are people who can make a hole disappear like magic, I have checked carefully, under very high magnification, and have found no remainder of sanding, buffing, etc. The weight, as I originally stated, is 2.2 grams of a possible 2.5 grams. The coins' wear could account for the loss. Maybe I should submit it to Fred Weinberg? Thanks again for the help.
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 Posted 10/22/2019  10:19 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add coop to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
If the coin was soldered, the metal might not be a match. Any difference on those areas? Lighter or darker, or appearing to be different?

As for Fred to look at it you might send him some images and see what he thinks? I don't have his email address. Or Mike Diamond might know something. (But if this is the only coin with that issue, then it may just be damage)
Richard S. Cooper
Some have asked about my images I use and I'm glad to say, you can now you can see the DVD in sections on youtube:
1. Intro, older coins, toned coins 2. Doubled dies 3. Die events, One of a kind errors 4. So called errors, Coin information 5. Coin information Types and Varieties, Overlays
Jefferson nickel doubled dies Wexler/Rebar complete listings

trail dies:http://www.traildies.com/
Edited by coop
10/22/2019 10:21 pm
Valued Member
United States
183 Posts
 Posted 10/26/2019  1:11 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add yontan to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
coop, I did contact Fred Weinberg, and he asked me to send my pictures. I am waiting for a reply. While waiting I checked http://www.error.com and under part IV :Die Breaks produced by impact there is a great picture of a dime with the same raised surface on both sides . If you check it out, It might be a way to explain my coin's anomaly. I would have placed the picture here, but do not know how.
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 Posted 10/27/2019  2:33 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add coop to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Are you talking about one like this?

This is an obverse die break. The reverse is a weak strike because of the missing metal from the obverse die. All cuds usually show a weakness on the reverses from the failure of the striking to form the opposite devices.
It is like placing your 4 finger tips together with the opposite 4 on the other hand. Now tuck on finger into your palm. Note how the missing digit, does not press on anything without the digit present? Same with a cud. Nothing there to cause the strike to happen on a area missing the opposite die resistance. Not the same thing that is going on with your coin. Make sure to post the information on the forum as an update for this thread.
Richard S. Cooper
Some have asked about my images I use and I'm glad to say, you can now you can see the DVD in sections on youtube:
1. Intro, older coins, toned coins 2. Doubled dies 3. Die events, One of a kind errors 4. So called errors, Coin information 5. Coin information Types and Varieties, Overlays
Jefferson nickel doubled dies Wexler/Rebar complete listings

trail dies:http://www.traildies.com/
Edited by coop
10/27/2019 2:34 pm
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