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What Do We Call This 1881 DDO?

 
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
1761 Posts
 Posted 03/23/2020  6:40 pm Show Profile   Check gidjit's eBay Listings Bookmark this topic Add gidjit to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
so I found this one not listed in 65th charlton just wondering what you guys call it? and scarceity?


please check out my collection of large cents from 1858 - 1920 (click link below, you DO NOT need a facebook account to view)
https://www.facebook.com/media/set/...l=4b87156114
also you can see my collection of 1859 die pairs here
https://www.facebook.com/media/set/...47995&type=3
Edited by gidjit
03/23/2020 6:41 pm
Valued Member
United States
160 Posts
 Posted 03/23/2020  6:49 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add river4449 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Do you have photos of the rest of the lettering? Or does it only occur in those spots? Given that its isolated I would like to say doubled die, also given that the serifs are split, but I'm no expert. However given that it inst listen in a catalogue somewhere also contradicts that. Better photos are a must.

Jasper
regards, Jasper- "river4449"
Canada 5 cent silver collector.
PMs are open, whether you have a question or simply wish to talk.
Edited by river4449
03/23/2020 6:50 pm
Valued Member
Canada
197 Posts
 Posted 03/23/2020  10:21 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add NiNGCumpoop to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I have found a few of this kind with doubling noticeable only on the VICT of Victoria. I call them Double Die. I keep them separate from the Doubling Around The Clock ones. As for scarcity I'm not sure. The doubling is easily missed by the naked eye on these ones....I'm still finding them in the wild. Nice Coin!
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United States
2835 Posts
 Posted 03/24/2020  07:28 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add okiecoiner to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
There are a number of coins/dies similar to yours for 1881. This was a time of great changes happening at the mint. They were changing/repunching dies to modify the 1876 Obv 1 ones on the shelf with single serif N's. The Obv 1a Obverse was starting to be put into use ... and there was some Machine/mechanical doubling going on with hub=doubling seen and repunching of some letters.

We could have put in another 3-4 examples of other 1881 DDO's in the 2011 Charlton, but were restricted in space (80 pages). We already had 9 different 1881's listed and really couldn't put in any more. The 1881's and '82's are chuck-full of varieties that were talked about on the old CCRS site, but much of that information was removed and no longer archived there. Most of us major variety collectors removed all of our posts from there, valuable information disappeared.... I think over 20,000 posts were removed when we all left there. You have a fairly scarce coin, but there are other '81's that are scarcer.
Valued Member
United States
399 Posts
 Posted 03/24/2020  09:19 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add dan-in-crystal-lake to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Gidjit, excluding the wrong font around the clock (ATC) variety, there are 5 different Obv. 1 ATC varieties that present in VICTORIA exactly as you have photographed. The I/I is and I over broken I (right bottom serif) and the C is a C over broken C. They all have these markers. Some are offset a bit more then others.

Now that we have narrowed it down to 5 choices, the other clue in your obverse pic is the very light die cracking across the top of VICTORIA. I'm not sure if your coin is high enough grade to look for the markers, but I believe you should see the following unique identifiers.

Doubling in GRATIA, most evident in the bottom serifs of the AT
N/N in REGINA, evident in the diagonal, bump on upper right serif, recut entire right stand
N/N in CANADA, evident in the diagonal, right stand and upper right serif
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2835 Posts
 Posted 03/24/2020  10:14 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add okiecoiner to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
BTW folks, the "Dan" above is also one of the co-authors of the 2011 (65th edition) of Charlton where the Vicky large cent varieties were partially listed. Take what he says to the bank. We tried to get as much out there info-wise that we could to show some of the "possibilities" that were possible for any date. Dan's just getting back into the fray after a fews years of hiatus, but he never lost spark.
Pillar of the Community
United States
761 Posts
 Posted 03/24/2020  10:55 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Phil310 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Gidjit, this may be the same die as yours. Wish I had a higher grade example to photograph.





It could also be this die if there is more pronounced doubling. There appears to be a similar die crack between the V and I.

Edited by Phil310
03/24/2020 11:04 am
Valued Member
United States
399 Posts
 Posted 03/24/2020  11:06 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add dan-in-crystal-lake to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Phil310, that is one of the group of 5 but a different one. The offset in VICTORIA is minimal but there.

Look for a die crack across the top of DEI, and another at the G in REGINA.
Markers if your coin has enough grade left are:
R/R/R in VICTORIA showing on right serifs both upper and lower
N/N in CANADA showing on both upper serifs
N in REGINA thick bottom left stand and foot, recut right stand at bottom
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United States
399 Posts
 Posted 03/24/2020  11:10 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add dan-in-crystal-lake to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Phil310, your second coin is the same as Gidgit's. Very nice coin btw.
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United States
761 Posts
 Posted 03/24/2020  11:36 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Phil310 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks Dan! I knew you would know which of the two it was.
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Canada
8929 Posts
 Posted 03/24/2020  12:08 pm  Show Profile   Check SPP-Ottawa's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add SPP-Ottawa to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
The 1881's and '82's are chuck-full of varieties that were talked about on the old CCRS site


I dropped by the site recently, 10 posts from 2017-2020, of those 4 of them are from the webmaster. Yet, it still claims to be "The ultimate online resource..."

Sometimes I miss the old CCRS crowd at Torex shows... but not enough to ever go back!!
"Research is what I am doing, when I don't know what I am doing" --Wernher von Braun

Content of this post is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 3.0 Unported License. See: http://creativecommons.org/licenses...0/deed.en_US

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