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How Would You Grade This Coin? (1793 Dated Basel Thaler)

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 Posted 05/22/2020  3:28 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add ccaps97 to your friends list Get a Link to this Message




*** Edited by Staff to Add Year / Mintmark / Denomination to Title. Titles are Important! ***
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 Posted 05/22/2020  4:09 pm  Show Profile   Check GrapeCollects's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add GrapeCollects to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Counterfeit
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 Posted 05/22/2020  6:31 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Spence to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
@ccaps, can you please add the weight of this piece to this thread? It would be nice to see how it compares with a known example (e.g. here: https://en.numista.com/catalogue/pi...114147.html). Thx.
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 Posted 05/22/2020  6:41 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add ccaps97 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I have been in possession of the coin since 1970 and know that my relatives have had it in their possession since 1864. I don't know if they were making counterfeit coins back then, or if it was worth doing it then.

Below is a link to Numista with a photograph of an original coin. My coin sure look legit. I wish you would take another look at this. Thanks, John

https://en.numista.com/catalogue/pieces114147.html
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Australia
16950 Posts
 Posted 05/22/2020  8:43 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add sel_69l to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Scenery thalers have always been popular with collectors and unfortunately, have been a target for copiers and outright fakers.

I see no reason so far in this thread why this coin should be a fake, (provenance may be good in this case),
but
it must be remembered that excellent fakes of very many different types of European crowns exist, and have been around for many decades. Davenport warns of this.
Therefore,
it is essential that all due diligence must be followed.

I have a high quality copy of a scenery thaler in good silver in my collection, but this coin is marked as 'copy', albeit in tiny lettering, which could be easily removed. I bought it for silver value, plus a small premium. I imagine that a small, but healthy market for such 'coins' exist, especially in Europe, and has done so for a very long time.
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 Posted 05/22/2020  9:02 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Coinfrog to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I'll vote fake. Too good to be true.
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 Posted 05/22/2020  10:31 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add ccaps97 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Its True. There is no way that's fake as I said above I have had it in my possession since 1970 and also saw it back in the 50's when my aunts would show me and my brothers where the old coins were kept that their great uncle had collected. She was always afraid they would be lost as it was in a secret compartment in a roll top desk. Not only did I inherit the coins, I have the roll top desk. The coins have been in an old bank bag until 2 months ago when I have now sorted them and put them in individual holders. Its mostly American coins but he was also a seaman and so he has some coins from around the world. However I would assume he brought the Thaler with him when he immigrated from Germany to America in the 1840's, and I have his seaman papers showing that. The unfortunate thing is that all these coins were just packed together in a bag all these years.
Its hard to understand why he collected the coins because they weren't treated like a coin collector would, and while the vast majority show average circulation, with some really nice, but also a lot that are almost worn completely and have only silver value, yet they were all kept together. I will from time to time post pictures. I have on another forum here posted a picture of a nice Seated Liberty dime, and he sure liked collecting them as he kept over 200 of them. I will also post some of the other foreign coins, none of which are fake.
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 Posted 05/23/2020  12:26 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add sel_69l to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
You may wish to send a similar inquiry to a specialist dealer in Swiss coins, who may be able to help you:-

Keplinger Coins (Iowa)
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 Posted 05/23/2020  03:28 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add realeswatcher to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
This was not a piece I had encountered before (I NEVER look at Swiss canton material), and it does have sort of a curious look... but did anyone bother looking at multiple examples? Clearly was a rather crudely struck coin... e.g., that crack through the letter "H" is legit feature, as is the goofy denticles.

Patina looks right for a piece that has been undisturbed for quite a while after an old wipe, as is the case with many older thaler-types.

Bigger pics would be nice, but looks OK to me.

https://www.sixbid-coin-archive.com...1793%20basel
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 Posted 05/23/2020  04:29 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add keith12 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply


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 Posted 05/23/2020  06:37 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add sel_69l to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
To look at a range of different varieties, try Google Images
'1793 Basel thaler'.


Google Images can be a very useful numismatic search tool.
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 Posted 05/23/2020  08:57 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add ccaps97 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks to the poster for the link which I copied below;

https://www.sixbid-coin-archive.com...1793%20basel

I see my coin is the second one on that link. Click on it and it enlarges. I see there is a period after the "E" and also the way the "E" is shaped. So I took a close-up of mine to see if it was the same (picture below). Also note the line to the letter "H" that was mentioned above.

I can understand skepticism but to just say fake without any verification other then "Its hard to believe". I am not a coin collector and its only because of the quarantine that made me take out the coins and then to research the coins. I realize there is some value and I ordered $165 worth of cardboard holders and plastic discs to protect them. I think the Thaler might be the most valuable however it would have to be in a specialized market for sure. As I said I am confident of the location of these coins for over 100 years and I am not sure back then anyone was making fakes of high quality. Thanks to those that are helpful. Here is the close-up; Also thanks to the person that rotated my original picture, for some reason it kept going on upside down.
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 Posted 05/23/2020  09:24 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add keith12 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Your coin looks good to me. I looked at for some time this morning. Just don't know to say for sure. Weight and size would help
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 Posted 05/23/2020  09:43 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add ccaps97 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Measured, but I don't have any scale.
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 Posted 05/23/2020  5:26 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add realeswatcher to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The piece is genuine.

The Seated dime and quarter are solid pieces. What other world material is there?
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