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1880 NFLD 10c - Possibly Dipped?.

 
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 Posted 07/06/2020  4:21 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add Silver101 to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
This is graded VF-30, which I think is likely spot on. But I suspect it's also been dipped with some modest retoning around the rims. Opinions? Given the grade the price is quite good - and this is a scarce coin which I've been looking out for for some time now. But I'm a little allergic to coins that have been dipped.




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 Posted 07/06/2020  4:45 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Coinfrog to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Pics are too dark to get a good feel for a possible cleaning/dipping.
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Canada
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 Posted 07/06/2020  4:50 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Silver101 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The originals are no better. But it's very lightly toned - and the toning is mostly confined to the peripheral areas (I think you can sort of see that).
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 Posted 07/06/2020  5:59 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Numis-Northerner to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I agree with frog, can't say for certain on whether or not it's been dipped. Do be cautious, every TPG has there short comings when grading this series, ICCSs' being they often let don't peg details coins.
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 Posted 07/06/2020  8:33 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Silver101 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
yes for sure - this is why the hesitation. I've been looking for an 1880 10c for a while now - hard to find anything much above VG. But then, buy the coin, not the holder as they say. I'll ask the guy for some better pics.
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 Posted 07/06/2020  8:42 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Numis-Northerner to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Good idea, I've seen examples as well of the TPGs nailing the grade, and under grading as well, but I really only have 1 or 2 example from each when it comes to Newfoundland coins.
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 Posted 07/06/2020  10:55 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add tamarin to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
looks like a nice coin. Possibly dipped. Eye appeal for sure and a very tough date.
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 Posted 07/06/2020  11:09 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add johnnysprawl to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Let's be clear here...do you mean dipped or cleaned/polished?

I have never seen an ICCS flip with 'dipped' on the card, only cleaned or polished.

PCGS does not consider 'dipped' coins to have been cleaned, and therefore they won't get a details designation.
https://www.PCGS.com/news/no-grade-coins-pt4

For what it's worth, yes the OP's coin has been cleaned/polished/dipped at some point over the past 140 years, as it's impossible for a silver coin to be around that long without toning/tarnishing...
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 Posted 07/07/2020  07:03 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Silver101 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
@johnnysprawl -
Dipping in acetone and/or distilled water to remove loosely bound surface crud is considered legit by many people (though I don't do it myself). But there are other chemical approaches, particularly using redox-active cleaning agents, that eat away at the surface of a coin. That is most def not legit.

ICCS and PCGS do not indicate that a coin they've graded has been dipped, that is correct. But if they detect a modified surface then they will put the coin in a body bag, ungraded, and send it back to you. I have had that experience with ICCS and I know people who have had it with PCGS.

My take is that a coin that has all the little dings and scratches that come from transit through 10,000 pockets but that has an artificial gleam as though it was minted yesterday is unattractive. It just looks fake. In this case, I suspect dipping but not a particularly harsh dipping so maybe it's okay - though it would reduce the amount I'd be willing to spend. As I say, this is a nice example of a rare coin. My concern started with the fact that ICCS has a pretty high fail-rate at detecting some defects even though they do consider them to be defects.

I've asked for some better photos....we shall see!
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 Posted 07/07/2020  07:06 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Silver101 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Which is exactly what it says on the link you provided:

""Dipping" (the removal of toning with a chemical bath) is not considered cleaning under this definition, unless it has been done repeatedly or improperly. In the past, many coins were cleaned by well-meaning numismatists, before the dangers were fully understood."
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 Posted 07/07/2020  6:02 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add DBM to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Almost all Victorian silver coins have been either dipped or lacquered in the past.

PS see my signature
"Dipping" is not considered cleaning...
-from PCGS website
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 Posted 07/09/2020  08:06 am  Show Profile   Check TheDeductible's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add TheDeductible to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Perhaps it would have more toning if it hadn't been dipped, but really, considering the rarity of such a coin in this grade, I don't think it having been dipped a hundred years ago makes any difference. At this time the surfaces don't seem to be affected by an old cleaning and it will continue to tone as the years progress.

I'd be happy to put this one in my collection!
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 Posted 07/09/2020  10:43 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Silver101 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
@The Deductable - yes, agreed. I actually bought it - was staring at it for the 10,000th time and thought 'what's the problem here?' and just went for it. Price was pretty good given how rare that one is.

Next stop is the 1870 NFLD 10c....I'm finding decent ones hard to find: they're either bent, missing numerals and letters or just look crappy. Or they're stratospherically expensive....
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