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1814 Capped Bust Dime -- Scratched?

 
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Author Previous TopicReplies: 15 / Views: 450Next Topic  
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 Posted 08/01/2020  09:27 am Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add Adam590 to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
I love this coin--there are nice traces of luster (especially on the reverse), subtle toning, and cool die clashing on the obverse. I am curious about the reverse, though. What are these marks above the eagle's neck? Are they scratches? Adjustment marks? If they are in fact scratches, why isn't this a "details" coin?

Note: this coin DID straight grade, and even earned a CAC sticker!



Edited by Adam590
08/01/2020 12:27 pm
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 Posted 08/01/2020  10:25 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add panzaldi to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
some weakness in strike especially on the reverse. I dont think those reverse scratches are adjustment marks.

AU53. nice early date specimen!
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 Posted 08/01/2020  10:52 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add keith12 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
AU-53 Not adjustment marks
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 Posted 08/01/2020  11:22 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Coinfrog to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Possibly graffiti?
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 Posted 08/01/2020  12:04 pm  Show Profile   Check GrapeCollects's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add GrapeCollects to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
AU53
My best finds: 1999-WAM:http://goccf.com/t/332161 1988-RDV-6:http://goccf.com/t/335954#2873459 1986-Off-center: http://goccf.com/t/335952
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 Posted 08/01/2020  12:15 pm  Show Profile   Check BH1964's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add BH1964 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Possibly graffiti?


Could be, and old graffiti if it is.

Doesn't appear bad enough to detail grade it. The AU53 grade suggested above sounds good to me.
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 Posted 08/01/2020  12:55 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add IndianGoldEagle to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The obverse looks like metal flow lines but the scratches on the reverse are an issue for me. I like the coin and would be at AU-55, but I can't see a straight grade on it.
AU-55 details, scratches reverse.
But you've told us it straight graded and got a CAC which puzzles me.
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 Posted 08/01/2020  1:03 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add keith12 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
But you've told us it straight graded and got a CAC which puzzles me.

And the worst part is, we may never know
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 Posted 08/01/2020  2:28 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jpbone to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The obverse fields look like some clashing. The reverse does hold it back and details the coin IMO. AU details.

Edit: after shrinking the photo down to actual coin size, I think a straight grade is legit. Not sure about CAC though.
Edited by jpbone
08/01/2020 2:31 pm
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 Posted 08/01/2020  3:01 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Numis-Northerner to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I think a straight grade isn't out of the question, and whether or not CAC stickered it really depends on what grade the TPG gave it.
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 Posted 08/01/2020  8:14 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add numismatic student to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
AU55. Looks like the obverse is weakly struck on the right side. Stars look really sharp and split in obv left, but flat in obv right. Contact marks in cap and hair.
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 Posted 08/01/2020  10:06 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add sel_69l to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I have never seen adjustment marks on smaller silver coins of the 1800's.
Adjustment marks, whenever I have seen them, are on larger silver coins of the previous century. Always parallel, although two sets of them may cross each other.
Interesting is the fact that the scratches do not affect the eagle - only the field. Coinfrog and Keith 12 together may be on the right track to a good explanation.

Also interesting is the field disturbance (from the die?) in front of Lib's face. I kind of agree: clashing could be the reason.

AU-53 OK for me as well.
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 Posted 08/01/2020  10:37 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Coinfrog to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Straight-grade and CAC sticker dumbfound me. Those reverse vertical scratches are certainly not adjustment file marks and were clearly made after the strike. Buy the coin, not the holder.
Edited by Coinfrog
08/01/2020 10:39 pm
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 Posted 08/01/2020  11:03 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Adam590 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks, everyone. Numismatic Student: Thanks so much for detailing your analysis of the strike on one side of the coin. Coinfrog, I appreciate your sentiments about buying the coin and not the holder--this one spoke to me as a type coin and I really like it--the disturbance on the obverse to the left of Liberty's forehead and especially the luster and color on the reverse. The coin certainly has "character" and fits in well with a higher end circulated type collection of Half Cents, cents, dimes, and half dollars I am looking to assemble. Everyone else, thanks for identifying the marks as scratches, possibly graffiti. Jpbone raises a good point about shrinking down the image, which more accurately reflects the coin's real life appearance. The marks don't bother me so much, and they are toned over--I guess I was wondering why PCGS and CAC don't seem to mind these marks when they mind other marks. I understand coin appreciation is subjective and very personal, which is why I value your opinions on here! I am just looking to see where the lines are with these things for PCGS and NGC. I am starting to wonder if the graders themselves make these decisions with their own personal predilections (the grader really likes the coin's other merits so much that he or she is able to "overlook" the scratches) helping to inform them.



Edited by Adam590
08/01/2020 11:10 pm
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 Posted 08/01/2020  11:31 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Jaobler to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I could see a low AU for this coin based on remaining detail and apparent strike weakness. The reverse marks are old scratches that have toned to the point they seamlessly match the overall patina. Original toning makes for excellent eye appeal.
This situation I think calls for a net grade to account for the scratches but a straight grade is made acceptable based on eye appeal. If PCGS had given it an XF-45 then perhaps a green bean would make more sense. AU-55 seems a little over the top.
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 Posted 08/02/2020  01:03 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Zurie to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Considering the scratches are only about 2 mm long and are probably barely noticeable in hand, I'm not surprised that it straight graded. The only question would be whether the grader felt they were deliberate, thus warranting a graffiti designation. It's a beautiful coin, and I would have been willing to assume the marks were random, too. Nice addition to your type collection!
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