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1858 Canada 20 Cent - How Good Is This?

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Valued Member
Canada
347 Posts
 Posted 08/14/2020  11:31 am Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add Silver101 to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
I'm curious to know how people see this coin - my personal take is that it is rather generously graded. I'll given the answer and the price it sold for later on.

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Canada
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 Posted 08/14/2020  11:38 am  Show Profile   Check nickelsguy's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add nickelsguy to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
ef40 polished
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Canada
2299 Posts
 Posted 08/14/2020  11:44 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add doubleeagle59 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Probably graded MS by the US grading companies.
Valued Member
Canada
347 Posts
 Posted 08/14/2020  11:54 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Silver101 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
It's tied for first place at PCGS - MS-66 (!). Sold for $18,000 USD.

https://coins.ha.com/itm/canada/wor...bnail-071515

Every now and then I feel like I understand this biz and then I come across something like this and it just floors me....
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United States
3141 Posts
 Posted 08/14/2020  12:09 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add okiecoiner to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Wow! They missed it by over 20 points.
Valued Member
Canada
347 Posts
 Posted 08/14/2020  12:16 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Silver101 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I think that grade was probably assigned some time ago - unless I'm mistaken that's one of the older PCGS holders? I've been told that they've brought their game up a fair bit but still - that is bonkers. I'm not sure about EF-40... the obverse is a little worn on the high points and that the reverse is a weak-ish strike and that certainly takes it down a notch or two. Though the leafs on the reverse are quire nice - They point a little closer to AU maybe? Anyway, I think mint state is well beyond a stretch and the fact that it's got a 66 on the Sheldon scale is too.

Even more crazy is the price that was paid.... I have a gorgeous, originally toned 1858 20 cent. It's graded EF-45 (from ICCS but I'd say they're on the money) and bought it for $350 Canadian.
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United States
50475 Posts
 Posted 08/14/2020  12:43 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Coinfrog to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The original coin certainly is an eye-catcher.
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Canada
1575 Posts
 Posted 08/14/2020  12:48 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add papeldog to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I would say its over graded it has very nice fields but shows considerable wear on high points. Or is it a weak strike?
Edited by papeldog
08/14/2020 12:49 pm
Valued Member
Canada
347 Posts
 Posted 08/14/2020  1:05 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Silver101 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The reverse is certainly a weak strike - you can tell by the word "CENTS" which is often a point of feebleness on this coin. The fields are very nice indeed and I'm pretty sure I can see mint lustre there. I put it in the lower AU range. Maybe 53?
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Canada
537 Posts
 Posted 08/14/2020  1:11 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add tamarin to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I love the reverse! The obverse has obvious signs of lustre but the detail is unimpressive. Looks like EF all day long to me, judging by the obverse only.
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Canada
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 Posted 08/14/2020  1:18 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add 47P7 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I have no words... would have guessed a 58, maybe a 60
but.....one never knows what others opinions are.
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Canada
347 Posts
 Posted 08/14/2020  1:25 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Silver101 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I can only think that it's something to do with eye appeal, which is clearly quite good. Maybe it's a total knock out in hand?
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United States
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 Posted 08/14/2020  1:44 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add bosox to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
It must have something going for it. It was graded PCGS MS-66 and sold as part of the Canadiana collection in 2010 for $18,400 US. That collection was pretty much best of the best for Canadian decimal. It was regraded as ICCS MS-67 in 2015, but only sold for $12,925 US.

I do not remember ever seeing this coin in hand, but I am guessing a weak strike on the braid.
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Canada
538 Posts
 Posted 08/14/2020  1:50 pm  Show Profile   Check TheDeductible's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add TheDeductible to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
We're back to ...

Buy the coin, not the holder!
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United States
963 Posts
 Posted 08/14/2020  2:01 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add bosox to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Agreed, but when I see a coin graded 66 by PCGS and 67 by ICCS, it gets my attention as probably the real deal. I think in hand this coin probably has booming original luster, which both services value and eye appeal, which PCGS values. In other words, I really doubt the photos do it justice. Given the strike, I would not pay 66 money for this, but can easily see others doing so.
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 Posted 08/14/2020  2:58 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Numis-Northerner to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
For once I actually agree with PCGS, I have to say my first thought was MS-66, but guessed PCGS gave it higher. the fields are extremely clean, I don't see any wear, or anything that implies circulation.
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