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 Replies: 19 / Views: 3,319 |
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Pillar of the Community
 Canada
1081 Posts |
I think that grade was probably assigned some time ago - unless I'm mistaken that's one of the older PCGS holders? I've been told that they've brought their game up a fair bit but still - that is bonkers. I'm not sure about EF-40... the obverse is a little worn on the high points and that the reverse is a weak-ish strike and that certainly takes it down a notch or two. Though the leafs on the reverse are quire nice - They point a little closer to AU maybe? Anyway, I think mint state is well beyond a stretch and the fact that it's got a 66 on the Sheldon scale is too.
Even more crazy is the price that was paid.... I have a gorgeous, originally toned 1858 20 cent. It's graded EF-45 (from ICCS but I'd say they're on the money) and bought it for $350 Canadian.
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
94367 Posts |
The original coin certainly is an eye-catcher.
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
1923 Posts |
I would say its over graded it has very nice fields but shows considerable wear on high points. Or is it a weak strike?
Edited by papeldog
08/14/2020 12:49 pm
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
1081 Posts |
The reverse is certainly a weak strike - you can tell by the word "CENTS" which is often a point of feebleness on this coin. The fields are very nice indeed and I'm pretty sure I can see mint lustre there. I put it in the lower AU range. Maybe 53?
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
576 Posts |
I love the reverse! The obverse has obvious signs of lustre but the detail is unimpressive. Looks like EF all day long to me, judging by the obverse only.
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
1505 Posts |
I have no words... would have guessed a 58, maybe a 60
but.....one never knows what others opinions are.
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
1081 Posts |
I can only think that it's something to do with eye appeal, which is clearly quite good. Maybe it's a total knock out in hand?
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
1353 Posts |
It must have something going for it. It was graded PCGS MS-66 and sold as part of the Canadiana collection in 2010 for $18,400 US. That collection was pretty much best of the best for Canadian decimal. It was regraded as ICCS MS-67 in 2015, but only sold for $12,925 US.
I do not remember ever seeing this coin in hand, but I am guessing a weak strike on the braid.
http://www.victoriancent.com2011 & 2025 Fred Bowman Literary Award Winner, 2020 J. Douglas Ferguson Award Winner, & 2022 Paul Fiocca Award Winner. Life Member of RCNA.
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
851 Posts |
We're back to ...
Buy the coin, not the holder!
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1353 Posts |
Agreed, but when I see a coin graded 66 by PCGS and 67 by ICCS, it gets my attention as probably the real deal. I think in hand this coin probably has booming original luster, which both services value and eye appeal, which PCGS values. In other words, I really doubt the photos do it justice. Given the strike, I would not pay 66 money for this, but can easily see others doing so.
http://www.victoriancent.com2011 & 2025 Fred Bowman Literary Award Winner, 2020 J. Douglas Ferguson Award Winner, & 2022 Paul Fiocca Award Winner. Life Member of RCNA.
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
857 Posts |
For once I actually agree with PCGS, I have to say my first thought was MS-66, but guessed PCGS gave it higher. the fields are extremely clean, I don't see any wear, or anything that implies circulation.
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
1081 Posts |
@NumisNortherner - I feel like I'm seeing wear in both the hair at the top of the head, parts of the braid and that little ascending bundle of locks to the left and slightly above the ear. No? The reverse is extremely good - that takes it easily into AU in my books...
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3669 Posts |
What interests me is that it is an early die state with an unusually weak strike. The devices and fields are fantastic. I could see the slight rub on the obverse as coin cabinet rub, rather than from circulation. I'm curious about the strike on this coin. Does anyone have information on the type of coining press used and the striking pressure for the Twenty Cent? |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1353 Posts |
It is always possible that I am in error, but I do not really think PCGS took a coin with AU wear (or any noticeable wear) and put it into a 66 holder. Or that the best Canadian collection since Belzberg, which the premier rare coin dealer in Canada helped assemble, made a worn coin part of that collection. Or that somebody bought a worn coin for $18K, cracked it out, and sent it to ICCS where they put it in a 67 holder. Or than somebody else then bought a worn coin for $13K.
Weak strike and pictures taken through a PCGS holder that do not show the luster. If there was a luster break in the effigy the graders would have caught it. All JMO.
http://www.victoriancent.com2011 & 2025 Fred Bowman Literary Award Winner, 2020 J. Douglas Ferguson Award Winner, & 2022 Paul Fiocca Award Winner. Life Member of RCNA.
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
2781 Posts |
going agree with bosox on this one,
although the coin's photos are unimpressive, you aren't going to fool 2 TPGs and 2 buyers (each spending 5 digits on the coin) without there being "something more to it".
not my cup of tea, but I suspect there is more to this coin that can be derived by said photos
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Posted 08/14/2020 12:43 pm
