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Not Genuine Coins Returned From NGC

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Pillar of the Community
United States
1167 Posts
 Posted 09/08/2020  6:42 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Ty2020b to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I'm not the best when it comes to gold, but they have me fooled as well. Both look right to me May be a tell tale giveaway in hand though.
Bedrock of the Community
Australia
17452 Posts
 Posted 09/08/2020  7:58 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add sel_69l to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
TPG's will not say such coins are fake, because if they do,
the fakers will lift their game even further, to make their products even more deceptive.

Valued Member
United States
65 Posts
 Posted 09/08/2020  10:02 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Safaga to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

I'm confused. Please explain what is the effective difference between "fake" and "not genuine"? If a TPG designated a coin as "fake" as opposed to "not genuine", how would that make the fakers "lift their game even further"? Thanks.
Moderator
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United States
91188 Posts
 Posted 09/09/2020  09:58 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jbuck to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Yeah, that does not make sense. I think they label as "not genuine" because it sounds less pedestrian than "fake." It has nothing to do with throwing the counterfeiters off their game.
Pillar of the Community
United States
2426 Posts
 Posted 09/09/2020  10:06 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Zurie to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
"Not genuine" is the same as fake. There are many high quality fakes in classic gold that are almost indistinguishable from genuine coins, so it's a real risk buying raw gold coins.
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United States
9061 Posts
 Posted 09/09/2020  10:09 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add TNG to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I think it's an interesting situation. Hopefully you are not out any real money. If these are .900 gold, then it's not a huge loss unless you paid much more than bullion. I would keep them with the "Not Genuine" flips from NGC and be glad to have them. Who wouldn't?
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
16978 Posts
 Posted 09/10/2020  12:58 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Conder101 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
If you decide to scrp them, can I have the bodybags?
Gary Schmidt
Pillar of the Community
Canada
3519 Posts
 Posted 09/10/2020  01:11 am  Show Profile   Check Pacificoin's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add Pacificoin to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
There is also the possibility that NGC is not right either.
Both of those , if they are not genuine are probably
From the Lebanon / Middle East counterfeits of the 1960s
Early 1970s , before it became legal to own gold in the
USA . Then you are ok as to gold content as the counterfeits
from these areas were made of real gold from GB sovereigns .
Get an XRF done if you can .
Pillar of the Community
United States
1187 Posts
 Posted 09/16/2020  06:56 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Big-Kingdom to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Not Genuine just means it's not a real "coin".
Doesn't mean it's fake gold or counterfeit.

Many coins were made years ago in the middle east of 90% even 100% gold and sold in old u.s. designs.

It absolutely can be a not genuine coin and it can absolutely also be legit gold.

Can also be that 3 graders at NGC are wrong in their determination after looking at it but I doubt that.

So at this point we are worried about melt value of the gold really. I am quite sure a "we buy gold" place can determine if the gold content is there or not and don't worry aboUT the damage to find out since they aren't genuine coins with numismatic value.

Although I gotta say, no idea why they wouldn't slab them as tokens or medals if the gold content is there like they would a Daniel Carr strike.
Pillar of the Community
United States
2426 Posts
 Posted 09/16/2020  10:44 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Zurie to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
They may very well contain real gold, but they are still counterfeit because they were produced with the intent to deceive. There is no numismatic value, but the melt value for both may be as high as $1500 if they are 90% gold. Daniel Carr coins are fantasy pieces, not replicas of genuine coins.
Valued Member
Lebanon
240 Posts
 Posted 09/18/2020  5:25 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add chronos to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I didn't know that they imitated these type of coins in my country
Valued Member
United States
337 Posts
 Posted 09/18/2020  6:20 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add fplagge to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
TPG's will not say such coins are fake, because if they do,
the fakers will lift their game even further, to make their products even more deceptive.


I believe what sel_69l meant to say is that the TPGs will not say exactly "how" they know that a coin is fake, because if they do ...
yada yada yada.
Pillar of the Community
United States
1837 Posts
 Posted 09/26/2020  07:17 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add snowman to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
To me not genuine is a good catch-all as it would cover coins with altered dates and mint marks. I agree that the ambiguity does not tip their hand to potential forgers who are looking to refine their process.
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