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2 Dollars 2019 With 14 And 16 Serrations

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Valued Member

Canada
65 Posts
 Posted 09/14/2020  07:46 am Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add SP67 to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
About 6 months ago, a member of Numicanada found two varieties on the 2 dollars 2019 with 14 and 16 serrations.

You can find discussions and some pictures here (in French).

https://numicanada.com/forum/viewto...2514#p232893

In date of mid-September, 56 coins with 16 serrations have been found in circulation over 431 2$ coins dated 2019. All other coins have 14 serrations. This gives a population ratio of 13%.

Until now, it seems that all of them have been found on the East Cost, because it seems there's no other mention of this discovery somewhere else in the Community.

Please share your discovery and observations here.
Edited by SP67
09/14/2020 08:11 am
Valued Member
Canada
61 Posts
 Posted 09/19/2020  1:06 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Castor sous to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Hi SP67, here are some pics of a 2019 2 dollars with 16 serrations.

It would be great if some of you guys and girls would gave us some stats on this 16 serrations. thanks.

By the way all 2 dollars with security should have 14 serrations from 2012 to present.


Edited by Castor sous
09/19/2020 1:07 pm
Valued Member
Canada
65 Posts
 Posted 09/27/2020  07:40 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SP67 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Updated stats on the 2 dollars 2019 Polar Bear.

Until now, Numicanada's Forum Members have found in circulation 68 coins with 14 serrations over a total of 471 coins. This gives an observed population ratio of 14% between the 14 and 16 serrations varieties.

I was hoping to improve these stats with other observations across Canada. It's unlikely that the 14 serrations variety has been only distrubuted in Province of Québec. This is why I sent a post here.

After 2 weeks from my original post, there's still no news from CCF members of other provinces. Why? There's two options to explain that.

This variety was distributed only in Quebec OR there's no or very little interest for this variety.

These varieties are similar to the 2010 versions actually listed in Charlton Catalog.

Thanks to share your findings.

Edited by SP67
09/27/2020 08:32 am
Pillar of the Community
Canada
4603 Posts
 Posted 09/27/2020  08:38 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add john100 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Like all missing edge lettering coins or varieties, you can't instantly see the error, only read a label of a graded coin plus there is very little interest. What is more important this confirms that the edge lettering is applied after the coin is struck
Edited by john100
09/27/2020 08:40 am
Valued Member
Canada
65 Posts
 Posted 09/27/2020  09:14 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SP67 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Thanks john100 for your reply.


Quote:
Like all missing edge lettering coins or varieties, you can't instantly see the error, only read a label of a graded coin plus there is very little interest.


You're right. This variety is more difficult to detect and observe. But I guess there's some interests for such a varity. As I said, the actual variety is similar to the 2010 version with 14 and 16 serrations. The 2010 is already listed in Charlton, CCN and most coin's shop offer this variety with some premiums for the 14 serrations. So I don't understand why that could not be the same with the 2019 version.



Quote:
What is more important this confirms that the edge lettering is applied after the coin is struck


You're right for the lettering, but serrations (or grooves) are done during the coin strike by the collar (third die). After that the lettering is applied.
Pillar of the Community
Canada
4603 Posts
 Posted 09/27/2020  09:58 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add john100 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Get the 14 serration toonie graded as such and Charlton probably included it in next edition, 10% or so of 2019 production of toonies I guess is quite large. The missing edge lettering Calgary Olympic coins are a good example of how very little interest in this type of error, these coins rarely sell at auctions and there are only like 5 to 20 examples
Valued Member
Canada
65 Posts
 Posted 09/27/2020  3:36 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SP67 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Take a look at Ebay.
I guess there's some markets for the 14 and 16 serrations.
And a good premium as you can see...



Pillar of the Community
Canada
4603 Posts
 Posted 09/27/2020  3:57 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add john100 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
If you paid 40 bucks for the 2010 version and this one seller has sold 43 of them, can almost for sure 20 years from now you will not get your 40 bucks back, but if you take the time and look for the 2019 version and can get 40 bucks for them that is good for you. It's a variety that unless numbers are known, which is almost impossible to get from the RCM in my opinion only is worth 10 bucks at best.
Pillar of the Community
Canada
707 Posts
 Posted 09/27/2020  4:38 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add JohnWayne007 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply


Quote:
If you paid 40 bucks for the 2010 version and this one seller has sold 43 of them, can almost for sure 20 years from now you will not get your 40 bucks back


100% with John100,
i have personally found a few of the 2010 14 and 16 serration toonies in circulation, I even posted one on here a few months back with little to no reply.

Although they are in Charlton listings and other places, the demand of this sort of variety is very slim, especially if they are being found so commonly. Even a full roll of BU small cents with major Machine Doubling can catch a premium if the buyer wants them bad enough for whatever their personal reason may be, but that does not always mean you should demand such a premium for something you know is fairly common.

Im not exactly sure why they end up with 14 and 16 serration, and from my past experiences I dont think very many people care to know why since it is on the rim of the coin, and if you had one in mint state and had it graded or slabbed the only way you will know that it is not just a regular toonie in a slab is because of the writing telling you otherwise, if you cant even see the variety while keeping it safe from enviroment do you really want it.

Long story short, I do find the variety interesting and I even have some of the 2010 14 and 16 that I plucked from circulation, however I wouldent pay any premium for one. Same goes for the 2019, I will take my chances of finding one in circulation rather then pay any premium like that.
Aggressively searching Canadian Small Cents on a daily basis since 2018.

Some of my Discoveries.
1941 George VI 1 Cent DDO http://goccf.com/t/367977
1976 Queen Elizabeth II 1 Cent DDO http://goccf.com/t/373627
1970 Queen Elizabeth II 1 Cent DDR http://goccf.com/t/364301
1989 Belize 25 Cent's with a Doubled Die Reverse http://goccf.com/t/362747
Pillar of the Community
Canada
4603 Posts
 Posted 09/27/2020  7:46 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add john100 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
My best answer of why there is the two different serration collar is the RCM is striking a foreign coin on this collar or just poor quality collar for a toonie
Valued Member
Canada
65 Posts
 Posted 09/28/2020  06:59 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SP67 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thank you sirs for your comments. I respect your position but the question is not there.

I don't mind how much is worth these varieties. My goal with the Ebay snapshots was to show there's many collectors looking for these coins. (note to myself: I shouldn't have posted this publication with Ebay. Too distractive.....)

If you go back to my original post, I was just looking to get some stats across Canada. That's all. I know the actual ratio between 10 or 15% is quite high, but it's based on the numbers I have. If the 16 serations were only distributed in Quebec, that means that the ratio is much more lower. But if they were distributed everywhere, it's probably close to the actual value. This is just a basic reseach and collaboration of collectors is required.

The actual problem with my post is not with the popularity of this variety. There's only a few active members on CCF and I guess they are not collecting the 2$. There's much more collectors specialized with the 1 cent than the 2$.




Edited by SP67
09/28/2020 07:44 am
Pillar of the Community
Canada
4603 Posts
 Posted 09/28/2020  10:21 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add john100 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
More info is always good but the only reason someone would pay 40 for a 2010 toonie 14 serrations is it's in Charlton and some collectors believe it's kind of rare, just like the 1996 German planchet, there were upwards of 20 million of this type. Most likely a collar dies last longer than the obverse and reverse dies which last around 100000 strikes more or less for large coins, so one can assume there is at least 100000 of these 14 serration type. Most seasoned collectors would not pay 40 bucks for this variety or 300 bucks for a German variety
Pillar of the Community
Canada
707 Posts
 Posted 09/28/2020  11:22 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add JohnWayne007 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I understand the question, however I also think the only reason the majority of 2019 toonies with 14 and 16 serrations are being found in quebec is merely due to them being the only area that have collectors actively searching for them.

I have had hundreds of 2019 toonies pass through my hands but I never bothered to check the rims, I will do an experiment over the next two weeks an update back on my findings. I am located 7 hours away from quebec in a very small town a few hours from toronto with a general population of around 2,000. If I can find a couple all the way out here I think that would debunk the whole "mainly found in quebec" scenario and help with the stats you are looking for.
Aggressively searching Canadian Small Cents on a daily basis since 2018.

Some of my Discoveries.
1941 George VI 1 Cent DDO http://goccf.com/t/367977
1976 Queen Elizabeth II 1 Cent DDO http://goccf.com/t/373627
1970 Queen Elizabeth II 1 Cent DDR http://goccf.com/t/364301
1989 Belize 25 Cent's with a Doubled Die Reverse http://goccf.com/t/362747
Valued Member
Canada
65 Posts
 Posted 09/28/2020  12:13 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SP67 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
I understand the question, however I also think the only reason the majority of 2019 toonies with 14 and 16 serrations are being found in quebec is merely due to them being the only area that have collectors actively searching for them.


As any others E&V like DDO or DDR, just to name few of them.


Quote:

I have had hundreds of 2019 toonies pass through my hands but I never bothered to check the rims, I will do an experiment over the next two weeks an update back on my findings. I am located 7 hours away from quebec in a very small town a few hours from toronto with a general population of around 2,000. If I can find a couple all the way out here I think that would debunk the whole "mainly found in quebec" scenario and help with the stats you are looking for.


Thanks JohnWayne007. Really appreciate !
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Canada
687 Posts
 Posted 09/28/2020  7:14 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add loonielewy to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
My toonie collection is alive and well, quit a few coins considering they only started in 96. Now I'll keep my eye open for this one and the 2 new Victory ones. Thanks for the info, and feel better knowing there are other "loonie-toonies" out there. .
"We are poor little lambs...who have lost our way...Baa...Baa...Baa"

In memory of those members who left us too soon...
In memory of Tootallious March 31, 1964 to April 15, 2020
In memory of crazyb0 July 27 2020. RIP.
Valued Member
Canada
65 Posts
 Posted 09/28/2020  8:27 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SP67 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks loonielewy. It's good to hear you.

Let us know if you get this 2019 varieties.



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