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New And Improved ICCS Website

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Valued Member
Canada
372 Posts
 Posted 09/18/2020  2:45 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add Silver101 to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
Just came across this today....ICCS has entered the 21st century!

https://ICCScoin.ca
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Canada
1595 Posts
 Posted 09/18/2020  3:37 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add papeldog to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I think this is a good move for ICCS, it shows they are willing to change with the times a bit more professional and friendlier for customers
Valued Member
Canada
372 Posts
 Posted 09/18/2020  3:56 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Silver101 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Agreed. I think they have a way to go before they can retake some of the ground they've lost to PCGS and NGS. But this is certainly more professional than the old site. I wish they would post their population reports! They have an absolute mountain of data that would be of tremendous interest.
Valued Member
Canada
372 Posts
 Posted 09/18/2020  3:57 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Silver101 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
...sorry...NGC...
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Canada
191 Posts
 Posted 09/18/2020  4:04 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Sergiomomesso to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thats a good first step, BUT, should have been made a long time ago already. Late is better than never. Now they need to go with the hard slab and a good registry.

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 Posted 09/20/2020  12:39 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add 47P7 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
It is better than nothing.... but lacks some interest....
all it does it tells us what we already know...
as mentioned above, a POP list would be a huge step fwd and would make a ton of collectors seriously happy.
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Canada
599 Posts
 Posted 09/20/2020  10:51 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Alex A to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
It looks good!

If anyone submits through the new website then let us know how things go.

Thanks.
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Canada
1600 Posts
 Posted 09/20/2020  11:12 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Smallcentguy to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
You have to be careful with pop reports and I would say in particular with ICCS pop reports. I suspect that half of the top graded ICCS and PCGS coins have been cracked from their holders and resubmitted. I know I have taken a number of ICCS coins, cracked them and sent them to PCGS and then cracked them and sent them back to ICCS. I have cracked ICCS coins and sent them back to ICCS and I have sent ICCS coins to PCGS and let the stay in those holders. Given that this kind of thing has been going on for years, I suspect that populations of MS63/64/65/66 are way overstated.

You can count on pop reports to point out relative scarcity of certain dates. You can probably also assume that all high grade PCGS coins still exist.....no one is going to crack a PCGS MS65 coin unless it is going to go back and get 66, which is a very scarce thing. But you can't assume that all top ICCS coins still exist in those holders. I know of a few ICCS coins that are listed as solo finest that do not still reside in ICCS holders. So you will never see them come up for sale again.
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 Posted 09/21/2020  08:32 am  Show Profile   Check SPP-Ottawa's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add SPP-Ottawa to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply


All my top ICCS coins are now in PCGS holders.

Another anecdote: when I attended my last Torex show, June 2010 (Airport Hilton), I remember seeing the garbage pail outside the bourse, and it was full of recently snipped ICCS certificates. Back then, Brian Cornwell had a table at the show, and a lot of dealers and collectors would pick up their newly certified coins there. Some dealers would go back to their tables, quickly check their grades, then snip out a good number of coins and resubmit them at the same show. Collectors would grab a seat outside the bourse, and do the same.

For Brian, business was great - he was getting paid to grade the same coins twice.

That said - general trends on grade rarity would still apply. You might get a sense of true higher grade populations, if ICCS ever set up their own registry sets for collectors.
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Valued Member
Canada
372 Posts
 Posted 09/21/2020  08:48 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Silver101 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
It all depends how you use the information. At some point all grading becomes subjective and one person's MS-64 is another's -65... There are definite trends at the various TPG, and we all need to keep them in mind - along with the 'buy the coin not the holder' adage. Personally, I always take the Sheldon score with a grain of salt - mostly I look a G/VG/F/VF/EF/AU.... and then ask myself whether a coin is problem-free, has lustre, has details that detract and whether any of the issues that detract are deal breakers. It's a complicated decision and more information is always better than less information.

With that in mind, I still say that the ICCS POP reports are critical. They've graded more Canadian coins than any of the other TPG and it's a real shame that information is not available for use.
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 Posted 09/21/2020  08:51 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add bosox to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I have done fair amount of research on large cent specimen coins. There are quite a few listed in the last ICCS pop report (years ago). I would submit that almost all (not quite all) of those are now in PCGS holders. Go figure.

i.e. the ICCS pop reports on these specimens are complete BS.
Edited by bosox
09/21/2020 09:01 am
Valued Member
Canada
372 Posts
 Posted 09/21/2020  09:24 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Silver101 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
@bosox - perhaps as regards specimens grade large cents but that's a small fraction of what people consider to be collectable. Once you go down the food chain to things that aren't going to sell for >$300 there's relatively little point sending them to PCGS for a $65 (USD) grading. Lots of coins are still going to ICCS and a great many coins that were graded by ICCS prior to 2016 are still in ICCS holders. I'm not defending their grading (or holder) one way or the other - but I have no doubt that their data could be part of an informed person's approach to collecting.
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978 Posts
 Posted 09/21/2020  09:36 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add bosox to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I would submit that much of the dealer inventory goes to ICCS, or has previously gone to ICCS, because of the cheap grading fees and no customs. Hence, I think there is a huge inventory of ICCS coins out there.

We can debate the quality of that grading. I can only express my personal opinion on the large cents. A large percentage (I would estimate it at 80%) of accurately graded 65 & 66 large cents now reside in PCGS holders.

PCGS tends to over-grade circulated Canadian cents. So does ICCS these days, plus ICCS grades many problem coins.
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978 Posts
 Posted 09/21/2020  09:46 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add bosox to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
P. S. because of exodus of decent coins from ICCS thru crossovers, I think the ICCS pop reports for lower grades are also odoriferous. Dealers keep ICCS alive, not collectors.
Edited by bosox
09/21/2020 09:49 am
Valued Member
Canada
372 Posts
 Posted 09/21/2020  09:47 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Silver101 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
@bosox - not disagreeing with you on account of I don't know all that much about that particular slice of things.

The problem of over-grading is, at least in part, one of the ironic off-shoots of competition. They're not only competing on the basis of how good their grading is, they're competing for $$$$$. The way to get more of those things is by giving people what they want!

I mean, there's more nuance to it than that but that's got to be part of the equation. One argument that's been put to me recently (by a very well-respected Canadian coin guy who most people here would know at least by reputation) is that PCGS will capture all of the market because everyone buys PCGS-graded coins. ICCS's market grows steadily narrower....many people shop for under-graded ICCS coins that they can ten ship off to PCGS.

So, there's a 'follow the money' argument to this thing as well.
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United States
978 Posts
 Posted 09/21/2020  09:54 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add bosox to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Does it surprise you that knowledgeable collectors look for undervalued coins, or that anybody in the numismatic industry follows the money?
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