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2021 Peace And Morgan Dollars!

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Pillar of the Community
United States
2485 Posts
 Posted 09/25/2020  11:39 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add hfjacinto to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
Anyone else see this?

https://www.coinworld.com/news/us-c...eace-dollars

Man oh man! I'm going to spend some money at the mint! I'm getting everyone and at least 2 of each. Yes I know they aren't "really " Morgan's or Peace dollars but I don't care.

Take my money! Please!!
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5549 Posts
 Posted 09/26/2020  12:04 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add westernsky to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Interesting. Hopefully the Senate will act on it, too.
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 Posted 09/26/2020  12:13 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add CelticKnot to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Pretty exciting.


Quote:
The coins to be authorized under the legislation are not considered commemorative coins, Uram said, and are not counted against the restrictions of two specific commemorative coin programs annually.

How? Is this a loophole? So if you don't call it a "commemorative" it's not a commemorative? Even if it's really a commemorative?

This article is a little bit terrifying... we could be talking 20-30 coins here. Peace and Morgan, Multiple mints, multiple finishes, privy marks, oy veh!
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7540 Posts
 Posted 09/26/2020  12:42 am  Show Profile   Check GrapeCollects's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add GrapeCollects to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
How? Is this a loophole


Originally it was going to be classified as a commem. But they pushed thru a coin commemorating police and first responders to try to combat the anti police sentiment. But since they still wanted to do the 2021 morgan and peace they made a loophole.

As for multiple designs I'd be cool with that. I'd want a business strike, an old style proof, and a cameo proof, and maybe an ultra high relief.

As for different mints I'd imagine they'd all be San Francisco coins, but it'd be cool if they got some at the Philly mint. I'd say the Carson City mint, but they're only doing the CC 1870 halves right now as far as I know.
My best finds: 1999-WAM:http://goccf.com/t/332161 1988-RDV-6:http://goccf.com/t/335954#2873459 1986-Off-center: http://goccf.com/t/335952
1999 WAM #2:http://goccf.com/t/338710&whichpage=1
1981 Double Struck In Collar: http://goccf.com/t/350199&whichpage=1
ANA id: 3194067
My Type Set: https://www.NGCcoin.com/registry/co...sets/236574/
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Canada
3717 Posts
 Posted 09/26/2020  05:20 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add oriole to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
If the designs are identical to the original Morgan and Peace dollars (except for the date and the mintmarks), that might be the loophole that does not classify it as a Commemorative.

If they are truly identical, that would even be of interest to those who often avoid the new coins.
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 Posted 09/26/2020  06:58 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add scopru to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Be interesting to see how this actually shakes out. Slippery slope creating loopholes for things like this.

Also I would hope the design is not identical, otherwise I would be more inclined to purchase a real morgan/peace dollar. So I am very interested to see more information come out. Thanks for the link hfj
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2485 Posts
 Posted 09/26/2020  07:39 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add hfjacinto to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Personally I hope they are exactly like the original, well better strike than the Peace dollars and I hope they come in various finishes. Sorry needed to wipe the drool from my phone :)

But what is the slippery slope? Please recreate a silver 1916 standing liberty, I'll buy one and new winged liberty dimes I'll buy them also. I love the coins of the early 19th century! Reissue them in silver like the originals and you can take my money!
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2485 Posts
 Posted 09/26/2020  07:43 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add hfjacinto to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The only slippery slope I see is explaining to my wife how I spent hundreds for about $15 in face value (depending if they make 15 different varieties).
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Australia
17415 Posts
 Posted 09/26/2020  09:17 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add sel_69l to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Very attractive for the modern NCLT collector, but
it has made me seriously think about getting a 1921 Morgan and Peace dollar pair instead.
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4701 Posts
 Posted 09/26/2020  10:13 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add commems to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The slippery slope comes from the fact that Congress, back in 1996, put measures in place to help ensure that collectors, beginning in 1999, would not be subject to the type of abuse they dealt with back in the mid-1930s when the number of new commemorative coin issues skyrocketed. Congress is now circumventing itself - and the wisdom of the limits - by passing commemorative coin bills that ignore the two commemorative coin limit imposed in 1996.

How is Congress circumventing the 1996 law with this Morgan/Peace Dollar bill? By not specifically naming the new coins as "commemorative coins," by not placing a surcharge on the coins and by not naming a "recipient organization" for the surcharge funds. It should be noted, however, that it's a matter of semantics as the bill states: "These iconic silver dollars with vastly different representations of Lady Liberty and the American Eagle, reflect a changing of the guard in 1921 in the United States and therefore on the 100th anniversary must begin to be minted again to commemorate this significant evolution of American freedom." Sounds like a commemorative coin to me!

Regarding pricing, the new bill simply directs the Secretary of the Treasury, who oversees the US Mint, to strike the new silver dollar coins and charge enough for them to cover:

(1) the face value of the coins; and

(2) the cost of designing and issuing the coins (including labor, materials, dies, use of machinery, overhead expenses, marketing, and shipping).

This should result in the coins being $10 cheaper than silver dollars in current commemorative programs because there is no surcharge added. I wonder if that would actually happen?

I find it interesting to note that while the bill specifies "The Secretary may issue coins minted under this Act beginning on January 1, 2021." it does not include an end/expiration date. Theoretically, as written, the legislation allows for coins to be struck annually by the Mint.

Of course, there is no guarantee that the bill will be approved by the Senate before the current session of Congress adjourns - prior versions of the bill were held up/not acted upon. If it is not passed by both chambers of Congress and approved by President Trump before the current session adjourns, the bill will have to be re-introduced in the next session in January (with a new makeup after the November elections).

Personally, I hope the bill dies for lack of action in the Senate. I'm probably whistling in the wind, however.


Collecting history one coin or medal at a time! (c) commems. All rights reserved.
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 Posted 09/26/2020  12:48 pm  Show Profile   Check Yokozuna's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add Yokozuna to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I'm going to go camp out at the mint. I don't want to miss this one! Here's a link to H.R.6192 https://www.congress.gov/bill/116th...ll/6192/text
The first US coin motto was found on a 1792 half disme and read: "LIB (erty) PAR (ent) OF SCIENCE & INDUSTRY"


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631 Posts
 Posted 09/26/2020  2:22 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add RPT to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I'm a buyer Hope it passes in the senate.
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749 Posts
 Posted 09/26/2020  5:57 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add wyzeguy to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Personally, I hope the bill dies for lack of action in the Senate. I'm probably whistling in the wind, however.


Curious, why is that?
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91001 Posts
 Posted 09/27/2020  12:02 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jbuck to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
...with privy marks added to specific Morgan dollar issues to pay homage to the silver dollar output at the former Carson City Mint in Nevada and New Orleans Mint in Louisiana.



Quote:
Personally, I hope the bill dies for lack of action in the Senate. I'm probably whistling in the wind, however.
And if it becomes law, are you buying or taking a pass?

Interesting development.
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United States
1800 Posts
 Posted 09/27/2020  12:43 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Alpha2814 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I'm in, mainly for the Peace.
Working on: Indian quarter eagles, Chinese pandas, and San Francisco tokens; upgrading my Peace dollar and US Type sets

"Fear is the enemy of will. Will is what makes you take action; fear is what stops you, and makes you weak."
-- Sinestro to (my avatar) Hal Jordan, "Green Lantern" (2011)
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 Posted 09/27/2020  01:33 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add commems to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Personally, I hope the bill dies for lack of action in the Senate. I'm probably whistling in the wind, however.

Curious, why is that?

For at least two reasons:

1. I'm not a fan of coins commemorating other coins - especially when the original coins in question are as common and available as those included here. The 1921 P-D-S Morgan silver dollars make up the most common year sets in the series at 86+ million coins - with its 44+ million coins struck, the 1921-[P] is the most common by over 20 million coins vs. #2 on the list (the 1889-[P]). More than a million of the 1921 Peace dollars were struck. They're not as common as the 1921 Morgan dollars, obviously, but they are readily available in the market. If you like the designs, go out and pick up nice examples of the original coins. Why is a modern re-strike needed?

2. I don't like how the Mint is trying to get around rules that were put in place to protect collectors by pressuring Congress to pass a law that gives it the authorization to strike these new commemorative silver dollars. (See my discussion above for the details.) The Mint is in search of profits at the expense of collectors and appears (in step with the Treasury Department) willing to manipulate our coinage laws to help it achieve its goals. This position is diametrically opposed to the Treasury's stance in years past. If this bill passes, get ready for an onslaught of new, non-commemorative commemorative coins in the coming years.


Quote:
And if it becomes law, are you buying or taking a pass?

I will be a pass.


Collecting history one coin or medal at a time! (c) commems. All rights reserved.
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