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Impossible Find? Seated Liberty Half Dollar 1860-S 0 Over A Clear 4.

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 Posted 09/27/2020  12:35 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add yontan to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
I recently purchased this coin from an estate sale as an ordinary 1860-S half dollar. While packaging it, I noticed a metal projection at the lower left of the 0 in the date. When I looked closer, I saw an entire 4 under the 0. I think the pictures show this quite clearly. However, I can find nothing about any overdate in 1860, especially from San Francisco. I checked Bill Bugert's new book on liberty half varieties, Breen, and the internet. Nothing. Can this really be the only one? I included a picture of a 4 from Breen's book so you can see the same shape, and I photographed the 4 from different angles to catch the light. Thoughts?






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 Posted 09/27/2020  1:35 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Coinfrog to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Sure looks like it, nice pics. Must be a Seated Liberty Half fan on the forum. I don't own the principal work on this series.
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 Posted 09/27/2020  1:38 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add smat45 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Truly an interesting coin...
Considering they didn't make a 54...I have no idea where the 4 would have come from?
Hopefully one of the experts will be by soon to shed some light.
What did you end up paying for it?
Hope it's real...
smat
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 Posted 09/27/2020  2:37 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add yontan to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I checked Breen again, and there were 54's in the arrow series, and there was an 1855 over 54. These were P mints, but he says that the S branch mint, just before the Civil War, started to use any spare dies they could get hold of. If you notice (new pictures) the original date was effaced. You can see the die cleaning lines between and under the new numbers (red lines). They were very sloppy, but the lines are even evident just after the number 4, inside the zero. One other question, see the projection at the right bottom of the top portion of the 8 ? What might that be?


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 Posted 09/27/2020  3:45 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Ty2020b to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Very interesting, and a great catch. A relatively clear 4. Unfortunately I don't have any input in this series either, but I'm sure someone will.
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 Posted 09/27/2020  3:58 pm  Show Profile   Check Onedollarbillnut's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add Onedollarbillnut to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Very interesting coin. A 1860/54-S
Tim Hughes
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 Posted 09/27/2020  4:37 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add yontan to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Actually, Tim, I just thought the same thing when I looked at the 6. It has some metal along the top that could be the top of a 5.
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 Posted 09/27/2020  4:55 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add yontan to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Sorry, messed that up. There was no 54-S. the last coin with the 4 in the last digit place was either the 1844-O, or the 1844-P.
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 Posted 09/27/2020  5:01 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add John1 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
( I'm no pro, it's just my humble opinion )
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 Posted 09/27/2020  7:49 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Heymikep to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Well, very interesting. I am surprised that no one else said this, It is a fake! The SF Mints first year for the half was 1855 and there is no SF mint half dollar with the mintmark in that position. How many reeds are there. What is the weight?
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 Posted 09/27/2020  9:30 pm  Show Profile   Check Onedollarbillnut's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add Onedollarbillnut to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Yes it could very well be a fake, but remember the SF mint was looking for dies so they could have used a 1854 obverse die, removed the date and repunched the 1860 date on the die while using a reverse die from a previous year
Tim Hughes
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 Posted 09/28/2020  12:00 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add kbbpll to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Do you have a better picture of the obverse, and the whole date? I don't know much about these, but NGC says only two die pairs are known. I looked through about 20 on Heritage and the date doesn't match any. Top of 1 seems too flat, loops inside the 8, top of the 6 has such a distinctly round knob not seen on any HA examples, and the space between 8 and 6. I'm not saying it's fake, but a counterfeiter would also polish off the date before punching another one.

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 Posted 09/28/2020  12:36 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jimbucks to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
If counterfeit it would likely not be to fool a collector but to circulate. Perhaps the op can provide the weight and give it a ring test since there would not be a reason for a counterfeit to be made from .900 silver. The reverse lettering seems suspicious also.
Edited by jimbucks
09/28/2020 12:40 am
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 Posted 09/28/2020  01:20 am  Show Profile   Check GrapeCollects's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add GrapeCollects to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
If this is a fake, it's extremely interesting. I'd imagine it'd garner the attention of both counterfeit collectors and non counterfeit collectors alike.
My best finds: 1999-WAM:http://goccf.com/t/332161 1988-RDV-6:http://goccf.com/t/335954#2873459 1986-Off-center: http://goccf.com/t/335952
1999 WAM #2:http://goccf.com/t/338710&whichpage=1
1981 Double Struck In Collar: http://goccf.com/t/350199&whichpage=1
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 Posted 09/28/2020  01:38 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add kbbpll to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Huh, maybe it's this contemporary counterfeit. http://www.lsccweb.org/cfhalves/1860s_101page.htm
"Date clearly shows an 0 over 4 overdate considering the specimen's lower grade."
The discrepancies in the date I mentioned above seem to match up, as well as the reverse mentioned by @jimbucks. It's supposed to be "white metal alloy", which would make sense.
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 Posted 09/28/2020  05:59 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add smat45 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Wow...nice work kbbpll!! Where did you even find this info?
smat
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