Impossible Find? Seated Liberty Half Dollar 1860-S 0 Over A Clear 4.

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Author	Replies: 19 / Views: 3,462	Page: of 2
yontan Valued Member United States 292 Posts	Posted 09/27/2020 12:35 pm I recently purchased this coin from an estate sale as an ordinary 1860-S half dollar. While packaging it, I noticed a metal projection at the lower left of the 0 in the date. When I looked closer, I saw an entire 4 under the 0. I think the pictures show this quite clearly. However, I can find nothing about any overdate in 1860, especially from San Francisco. I checked Bill Bugert's new book on liberty half varieties, Breen, and the internet. Nothing. Can this really be the only one? I included a picture of a 4 from Breen's book so you can see the same shape, and I photographed the 4 from different angles to catch the light. Thoughts? Report this Post to the Staff

Coinfrog Bedrock of the Community United States 94367 Posts	Posted 09/27/2020 1:35 pm Sure looks like it, nice pics. Must be a Seated Liberty Half fan on the forum. I don't own the principal work on this series. Report this Post to the Staff
smat45 Pillar of the Community United States 2334 Posts	Posted 09/27/2020 1:38 pm Truly an interesting coin... Considering they didn't make a 54...I have no idea where the 4 would have come from? Hopefully one of the experts will be by soon to shed some light. What did you end up paying for it? Hope it's real... smat Report this Post to the Staff
yontan Valued Member United States 292 Posts	Posted 09/27/2020 2:37 pm I checked Breen again, and there were 54's in the arrow series, and there was an 1855 over 54. These were P mints, but he says that the S branch mint, just before the Civil War, started to use any spare dies they could get hold of. If you notice (new pictures) the original date was effaced. You can see the die cleaning lines between and under the new numbers (red lines). They were very sloppy, but the lines are even evident just after the number 4, inside the zero. One other question, see the projection at the right bottom of the top portion of the 8 ? What might that be? Report this Post to the Staff
Ty2020b Pillar of the Community United States 4680 Posts	Posted 09/27/2020 3:45 pm Very interesting, and a great catch. A relatively clear 4. Unfortunately I don't have any input in this series either, but I'm sure someone will. Report this Post to the Staff
Onedollarbillnut Pillar of the Community United States 745 Posts	Posted 09/27/2020 3:58 pm Very interesting coin. A 1860/54-S Tim Hughes Report this Post to the Staff
yontan Valued Member United States 292 Posts	Posted 09/27/2020 4:37 pm Actually, Tim, I just thought the same thing when I looked at the 6. It has some metal along the top that could be the top of a 5. Report this Post to the Staff
yontan Valued Member United States 292 Posts	Posted 09/27/2020 4:55 pm Sorry, messed that up. There was no 54-S. the last coin with the 4 in the last digit place was either the 1844-O, or the 1844-P. Report this Post to the Staff
John1 Moderator United States 56855 Posts	Posted 09/27/2020 5:01 pm Report this Post to the Staff
Heymikep Pillar of the Community United States 824 Posts	Posted 09/27/2020 7:49 pm Well, very interesting. I am surprised that no one else said this, It is a fake! The SF Mints first year for the half was 1855 and there is no SF mint half dollar with the mintmark in that position. How many reeds are there. What is the weight? Report this Post to the Staff
Onedollarbillnut Pillar of the Community United States 745 Posts	Posted 09/27/2020 9:30 pm Yes it could very well be a fake, but remember the SF mint was looking for dies so they could have used a 1854 obverse die, removed the date and repunched the 1860 date on the die while using a reverse die from a previous year Tim Hughes Report this Post to the Staff
kbbpll Pillar of the Community United States 4233 Posts	Posted 09/28/2020 12:00 am Do you have a better picture of the obverse, and the whole date? I don't know much about these, but NGC says only two die pairs are known. I looked through about 20 on Heritage and the date doesn't match any. Top of 1 seems too flat, loops inside the 8, top of the 6 has such a distinctly round knob not seen on any HA examples, and the space between 8 and 6. I'm not saying it's fake, but a counterfeiter would also polish off the date before punching another one. Report this Post to the Staff
jimbucks Pillar of the Community United States 4692 Posts	Posted 09/28/2020 12:36 am If counterfeit it would likely not be to fool a collector but to circulate. Perhaps the op can provide the weight and give it a ring test since there would not be a reason for a counterfeit to be made from .900 silver. The reverse lettering seems suspicious also. Edited by jimbucks 09/28/2020 12:40 am Report this Post to the Staff
GrapeCollects Pillar of the Community United States 8938 Posts	Posted 09/28/2020 01:20 am If this is a fake, it's extremely interesting. I'd imagine it'd garner the attention of both counterfeit collectors and non counterfeit collectors alike. Report this Post to the Staff
kbbpll Pillar of the Community United States 4233 Posts	Posted 09/28/2020 01:38 am Huh, maybe it's this contemporary counterfeit. http://www.lsccweb.org/cfhalves/1860s_101page.htm "Date clearly shows an 0 over 4 overdate considering the specimen's lower grade." The discrepancies in the date I mentioned above seem to match up, as well as the reverse mentioned by @jimbucks. It's supposed to be "white metal alloy", which would make sense. Report this Post to the Staff
smat45 Pillar of the Community United States 2334 Posts	Posted 09/28/2020 05:59 am Wow...nice work kbbpll!! Where did you even find this info? smat Report this Post to the Staff
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