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Is This A Mint Damaged 1908 IHC. Looks Double Struck To Me.

 
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 Posted 10/29/2020  4:55 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add larrw to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
You can see the what appears to be strike damage. Probably doubling. I'mnot sure though. The surface of the coin has micro waving on it. I purchased a digital stereoscope so I can take better photos of coins, but it wont be here for at lease another week. I can hold the phone still long enough to take photos of coins.

Anyways, around the entire coin looks like a "wave" coming off the strike of the coin. It looks like the ancient roman coins I have examined. For some reason this coin even has a bubble in front of the nose of the face. The surface of the coin in the fields is also unlike anything I have ever seen before. When I get that digital microscrope I will take a picture of the field surface. The striking appears to be extra deep, and very sharp. It actually lifted up parts of the design and folded them upward, towards the sky. It reminds me of looking at a picture of an island in the ocean with the waves going around the edges of it. The stuff thats going on in the fields looks like some extreme vibration happend when the con was being struck.

Opinions? How did this happen? Is this a double struck coin? Would PCGS put this coin in a holder? I bought this coin because I like it and I would pay the cost to have this encapsulated if they would do it. It appears to be a MS coin. The surface has a rainbow tone on it that I could not properly photograph. Edges of the coin look MS to me. No damage at all and look extremely clean.








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 Posted 10/29/2020  5:29 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Coinfrog to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Heat daamage?



to the CCF!
Edited by Coinfrog
10/29/2020 5:29 pm
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United States
20 Posts
 Posted 10/29/2020  5:35 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add larrw to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
It does kind of remind me of butter melting on a dish :)

The strike is so strong though. I put it up against my MS 63 07 IHC and this coin actually appears to have a much higher relief. Its a very neat coin. It looks better than my MS 63 at distance too. The shadow around all the legends makes the image stand way out when looking at it from a distance. It makes the ms 63 look like a weak strike :)
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17731 Posts
 Posted 10/29/2020  5:48 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Spence to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
@larr, could you please post the weight of this piece? I'm wondering if it was made more recently than 1908.
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 Posted 10/29/2020  5:58 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add larrw to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
@Spence,

The weight is split 50/50 between 3.1g and 3.0g on my cheap scale.

I added a picture of my 1907 Brown MS63 (ICG) and put my 1908 on top of it to show the relief difference. You can clearly see the deformality of the nose on the 1908. The relief on the reverse appears to be more exaggerated.

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 Posted 10/30/2020  09:33 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add smat45 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The reverse looks a little off to me...? The wreath does not look symmetrical...the right side seems broader than the left...?
I'm not well versed on this series...so I look fwd to what the experts have to say.
Interesting coin.
smat
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 Posted 10/31/2020  10:29 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Ty2020b to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I'm also a bit suspect of the authenticity of this one. IF it's is genuine, I'd agree with heat damage. Looks like someone held the torch on it a bit too long. Could have been a failed AT attempt.
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 Posted 10/31/2020  5:32 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add larrw to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
@Ty2020b,

I did not take a picture of the edges of the coin. They look perfect. The coin is 100% a struck coin in my opinion, but that doesn't mean it isn't counterfeit. For the heat damage, the only argument I could give against that is that there is no melt spots on the coin. There is no drooping or melting of any of the edges. All the high points appear to be sharp and not melted. Also, If the coin was getting torched to the point of melting, then the relief of the coin would not get taller. It would shrink and melt into the fields of the coin. This coin does have waves around the letters and design that look like something is melting, but as stated before, the relief would not get taller if it was melting.

Counterfeit is a higher possibility in my opinion. But I really dont know. Thats why I posted it here.

To me it looks like the coin was struck and when the press was down stamping the coin, something happened that shifted the press. I know they didnt have forklifts at the mint back then, but it looks like something big hit the press while it was down, and when it went back up it ripped upwards on the Nose and the ribbon of the indians face. The first picture I took of the coin shows the upward pull of the metal in those areas.
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 Posted 11/02/2020  6:49 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add larrw to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
So I think were in business. This cheap digital microscope actually works. What part of the coin does the expert's need to see? I took a picture of the O in Of on the right side of the obverse. See the waves? I can take all the magnified pictures needed to see what happened to this coin or if its fake. Just tell me were to photo it.

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 Posted 11/02/2020  7:24 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add larrw to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
After Exploring the coin with the microscope, Well, I just dont know what to think anymore. I no longer have any kind of opinion on the damage and I dont even know if it is a struck coin or if it is some kind of counterfeit. Check the photos for yourself. Its a strange coin. Photos are just random areas of the front back and 2 pictures of the edges.

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17038 Posts
 Posted 11/03/2020  12:47 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Conder101 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Surfaces have been altered and it looks like it has a coating of something on it.
Gary Schmidt
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 Posted 11/03/2020  07:27 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add just carl to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
If nothing else your having fun with your microscope.
just carl
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 Posted 11/04/2020  12:22 am  Show Profile   Check westcoin's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add westcoin to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Condor101: Surfaces have been altered and it looks like it has a coating of something on it.


I think Condor is on to something here. Try a soak in acetone (use a glass or porcelain jar/bowl) nothing plastic. See if any of the surface stuff comes off or changes. Acetone (not nail polish remover which contains oils and perfumes) should not change any color unless it was added after the fact. I've seen this melted look on coins before but for the life of me I can't remember what I thought it was. Melting with a torch sounds plausible, I've messed around a long time ago with some Indian cents and a blow torch, never got them hot enough to actually melt, but the surfaces sure looked bubbly when I let them cool naturally. I was experimenting with it for color changes.
"Buy the Book Before You Buy the Coin" - Aaron R. Feldman - "And read it" - Me 2013!
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 Posted 11/07/2020  02:53 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add larrw to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Is this better? Slightly different lighting also.
If this is deemed fake or damaged I will be returning it to the seller. He had a no return policy but he described it as a Rare double die coin. I damaged by melting coin is not a rare double die coin. It is a adulterating attempt to add features to a coin. I should be covered on my purchase. $40 dollars to much to be spent on a coin that has been torched or is fake. I'mok with the purchase as long as this is some kind of legit strike damage. But anything else and its going back to its old home. :)

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 Posted 11/10/2020  07:40 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Conder101 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
It definitely is NOT a doubled die so a return as a SNAD return is justified.
Gary Schmidt
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