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1918-D Buffalo. Am I Seeing Things?

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 Posted 03/17/2021  11:17 am Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add bandsdean to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
Seller's images. So I hit the BIN button on this. Aside from the obverse alloy mix flaws and reverse planchet void which will probably details grade it, is this what I think it is? 1918/7-D? Thanks for any and all opinions!







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 Posted 03/17/2021  11:29 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Coinfrog to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
It doesn't jump out to my eye. A close-up would really help.
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 Posted 03/17/2021  1:17 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add JimmyD to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Not an 8/7, just a regular 1918.
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 Posted 03/17/2021  1:35 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add panzaldi to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
not sure about the overdate but I have it at F15 probably details
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 Posted 03/17/2021  1:56 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add T-BOP to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
It doesn't quite look like it but nice try if it was cheap enough .
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 Posted 03/17/2021  3:06 pm  Show Profile   Check Tanman2001's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add Tanman2001 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Absolutely looks like a later die state 1918/7-D, mintmark location is right too. Don't know what images everyone else is looking at. Would love to see closeups once you get it in hand.
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 Posted 03/17/2021  3:10 pm  Show Profile   Check GrapeCollects's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add GrapeCollects to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
, details for the damage on the back, but 100% the 8/7
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 Posted 03/17/2021  4:31 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Ty2020b to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I'm not convinced it is. Inner loops of the 8 don't look quite right. Given the wear, I would expect to see less of the inner loops.

There's a couple markers to look for on this one, but we'd need sharper close up picks.
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 Posted 03/17/2021  4:51 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Zurie to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Maybe try this diagnostic tool. I've never used it myself, but it would be interesting to see if it really works.

http://www.coincommunity.com/forum/...IC_ID=283167
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 Posted 03/17/2021  7:40 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add fortcollins to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Depending on die state, there are several die markers that may be on the 1918-D/1917-D DDO. Not all of them will appear on most coins. Lack of a marker is not decisive. Presence of multiple markers is an indicator, but is also not decisive. Many of these markers appear on other Buffs of various dates. The mm position exists on other 1918-D Buffs, as well.

There are a number of charts, line drawings, and alignment indicators showing the location of the "7" relative to the second hubbed date (1918). Some of these show the "7" relative to the first "1" and the "9", and may be helpful.

Here are the markers that I have seen (and argued about) over the years.

Obverse:
The most prominent marker (and the one that is universally accepted) is a WNW-ESE light die crack from the hair immediately above the knot, angling slightly downward toward the crease in the lips. The crack starts at the SE corner of the first tuft of hair above the knot. It ends on the cheek, but aligned with the westernmost crease in the lips.
There is a small die chip below the right lower horizontal of the "E" in LIBERTY. When this appeared on the die is anybody's guess, and whether it eventually wore away is everybody's arguing point.
There are die polishing lines straight below the "LIB" of LIBERTY (from the LIBERTY/right rear leg clash). These are in line with the letters, and barely angled. These will not exist for all die states. On some coins, a remnant of the leg clash may be visible at the base of the "I" in LIBERTY. This, too, either was polished away or wore away on later die states.
There may be a very weak die crack from the eyebrow north, then curving west toward the juncture of hair and the forehead. This is unlikely to be seen on any circulated coin. Frankly, it may well not be seen on an UNC coin.
There may be a light die gouge straight east from the tip of the nose, very near the rim. This is also difficult to see on a circulated coin, and very likely would blend with the rim on coins below EF.

Reverse:
The mm location is a key, but is not decisive. Everone agrees with the mm ;position. On a Buff, the "E" on FIVE always has a chiseled lower horizontal, with a NE-SW angle. This is a design element, and not a marker. It is the measuring point for mm position, however. The SW end of that chiseled design is directly in line with the westernmost tip of the top serif of the mm on the 1918-D/1917-D DDO. The mm is completely below the line extending from the bottom of the "E" in FIVE to the bottom of the "C" in CENTS. The mm is positioned roughly one-third of the distance between the "E"-"C" bottom line and the rim.
There is a very small die gouge immediately above the curl of the tail, adjacent to the rim. This is usually blended into the rim on average circulated coins.

What would be very helpful would be clear photos of the obverse and reverse. The posted pics are too blurry to be sure. Closeups of "LIBER" of LIBERTY, the area at the rim straight east of the tip of the nose, the date, the cheek between the top of the ribbon and the crease of the lip, the mm position, and the curl of the tail could be helpful.

To get a good, clear picture, use a cell phone. Place the phone on a stack of 3 or 4 books, with the coin filling the complete frame of the photo. A dark solid color surface beneath the coin helps. Focus the camera and adjust the lighting. Use the highest resolution picture setting, and then copy the photo and crop it for the detailed shots. Reduce the resolution to upload the full coin pics.

FWIW, I think you may have it. The date looks right, but is blurred. I think I see the dot below the SE corner of the "E" in LIBERTY and I think I see the eastern half of the knot-to-lips die crack. I even think I see the small gouge above the curl of the tail. The mm position looks right. (After all that thinking, my wife probably thinks I'll see UFOs next.)

Let's see your in-hand photos. We're pulling for you!
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 Posted 03/17/2021  8:11 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Zurie to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
@fortcollins, somehow I feel a bit at a disadvantage trying to cherry pick coins when there are guys like you around!
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 Posted 03/17/2021  8:23 pm  Show Profile   Check vermontensium's eBay Listings Check vermontensium's eCrater Listings Bookmark this reply Add vermontensium to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Agree, normal date. The top of the 8 would be flat and the long part of the 7 would be clearly evident especially on a higher grade coin like this.
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 Posted 03/17/2021  8:25 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add fortcollins to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
@Zurie, Thanks! I grinned at the comment though. I don't do eBay, buying or selling. My business is entirely buyer-side, and I work other sources for my clients. I'm always glad to help anyone on here who is on the eBay prowl.
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 Posted 03/17/2021  8:40 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add fortcollins to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
@vermontensium, Here's why I cautiously think it may - but only may - be the DDO. There is a fairly sharp contact hit on the lower part of the second "1" and the lower left loop of the "8." That could obscure the identifiable angle of the lower part of a "7." It could also make a normal "8" look like it contains a "7." The photo is just too blurry at the top of the date to see what is going on.

Some of that is the out-of-focus shot, and some of that is the lighting and some of that is the alloy issue. The very tail end of the die crack looks spot on, and the mm is correct, but those alone aren't decisive. There are a lot of die cracks in that area and several normal 1918-D reverse dies with the mm very close to the DDO mm.
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 Posted 03/17/2021  11:02 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Greasy Fingers to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Keeping my fingers crossed for you......
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 Posted 03/17/2021  11:13 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add bandsdean to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Well thanks a lot for all the input as it is greatly appreciated. I have less than $30.00 invested and will not have the coin in my possession until May at the earliest. Coin, along with 20 others (including an AU 1917-S OBV Walker) are at a friend's home in London waiting for the chance to ship to me in the States. I will updated as soon as I get her in hand.
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