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1989 D Penny. Machine Doubling? Damage? Possible Double Die?

 
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Author Previous TopicReplies: 8 / Views: 205Next Topic  
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 Posted 04/08/2021  4:42 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add quequerre to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
Okay, this is my third time trying to post this. I accidentally deleted the prior two posts before I could post them . Last night, half asleep I read something about a possible wrong planchet with this 1989 d Penny. Could be a copper planchet from 1982. Any who, it probably wouldn't of made any sense to me (still learning the ropes). This 1989 d Penny seems to be pretty busy, a lot going on with this coin, not sure if this is doubling of some sort or damage of some sort. Would love some input from ya'all. Always hoping for some good value but, this is definitely a neat coin regardless. Also, I want to send a shout out to Parnelli917 for the great advice on how to take better pic's , your the best. LMK what you guys think about the 1989 d Penny and the pics. Way better? Or not so good?



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 Posted 04/08/2021  5:18 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add coop to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The answer to all your questions on the title are: No. This is called DDD Die Deterioration Doubling. It is an aging die showing it wrinkles of the again process for the die. How is this different?
1. Machine Doubling is caused by the machine. ( DDD is a die breakdown issue)
2. Machine Doubling affects the devices. ( DDD affects the fields, with movement towards the closest rim direction)
3. This is not damage. ( DDD alters the outside edges of the devices on the Date, to the right. Liberty to the left. Motto devices on the tops. This did not start out looking like this, the die aged. Thus it is a senior die.
4. Possible doubled die? No, but if a doubled die strikes enough coins, it to could look like this when it reaches the VLDS (Very-Late-Die-State)
5. On the areas above America, that is not damage either, but it is called "Split plating issue." This exposes the zinc layer because of the split of the plating on exposing the zinc layer and eventually will break down there. So none are a premium. The real value for this is what you learn about these. So in the future, you will know what they are and move onto the next coin. That is the premium for knowledge about what you see.
Richard S. Cooper
Some have asked about my images I use and I'm glad to say, you can now you can see the DVD in sections on youtube:
1. Intro, older coins, toned coins 2. Doubled dies 3. Die events, One of a kind errors 4. So called errors, Coin information 5. Coin information Types and Varieties, Overlays
Jefferson nickel doubled dies Wexler/Rebar complete listings

trail dies:http://www.traildies.com/
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 Posted 04/08/2021  5:23 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add quequerre to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thank you Coop. Much appreciated.
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 Posted 04/08/2021  5:44 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add quequerre to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Hey Coop, this would be the same DDD on this 1992 d Penny? Making sure I understood you correctly, if I did, this would be the DDD as the 1989 d Penny I just posted. Am I right? TY.
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 Posted 04/08/2021  6:04 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add coop to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Yep. Just like these as well:
















CoopHome: What is DDD and how does it affect a die?
Richard S. Cooper
Some have asked about my images I use and I'm glad to say, you can now you can see the DVD in sections on youtube:
1. Intro, older coins, toned coins 2. Doubled dies 3. Die events, One of a kind errors 4. So called errors, Coin information 5. Coin information Types and Varieties, Overlays
Jefferson nickel doubled dies Wexler/Rebar complete listings

trail dies:http://www.traildies.com/
Edited by coop
04/08/2021 6:08 pm
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United States
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 Posted 04/08/2021  6:22 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add quequerre to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Gottcha Coop, ty. One more question. What is the easiest way to distinguish between the two? DDO and a DD, in your opinion. At this point I feel like I'm special (like I'm never going to get it). I do appreciate you taking the time to answer me, it makes me eager to learn when I can ask someone for help when I'm in question. It makes a world of difference, so TY
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 Posted 04/09/2021  02:04 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add coop to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
DDO=Doubled Die Obverse.
DD= Doubled Dies
I'm guessing that is not what you were asking. But you probably meant DDD?
On a doubled die, during the mint process of creating a die, a hub is used to create the die.


The hub is like a coin. It's a positive design, just like a coin. But transferring this positive to the new die blank, makes the die, a negative. (Mirrored) the fields are the outside of the die, the highest points on a coin are the deepest part of the dies. So if the hub process is not aligned correctly, a doubled die can be created.

All coins struck with this die, will be a doubled die through its life.
On DDD, this is a die wear issue. The devices were all normal until late in its life, it is altering the devices, not on the devices, but on the fields. On the single squeeze dies, they are different from the multi-hub examples of the past. On the single squeeze dies, the profile is lower, than in the past. So it alters the fields, not the actual devices. This appears on all devices towards the closest rim direction. What is posted here are examples of this happening, but also some of the images I posted are advanced DDD. Advanced how? In the sense that now, the devices are now being affected.




You are beginning to see distortion on the outer edge of the devices and inner edges of the devices. Most of the time these dies don't reach this stage, but if continued to be used, will show the later stages of die wear.






But this die wear/DDD is not a collectible. Just like wrinkles on a senior, there are no premium for these. These are spenders. Unless you want to save them to show to a new collector. So the differences? One coin, the DDO/DDRs are Variety coins. They are premium coins. The DDD are no premium as they are just worn out normal dies. Spendable coins. But knowing the differences is the gold of collecting. Find one, you save it. The other on, you move on to the next coin. I hope this is the answer you were looking for. Another difference on the DDD, is it is a die event. A doubled die is a die variety. The variety coin strikes doubled dies from coin one to retirement. On DDD, the die breakdown happens only at the end of life, when 54% of the coins will be the last ones struck. (Not a good thing) Then the die will be retired.
Richard S. Cooper
Some have asked about my images I use and I'm glad to say, you can now you can see the DVD in sections on youtube:
1. Intro, older coins, toned coins 2. Doubled dies 3. Die events, One of a kind errors 4. So called errors, Coin information 5. Coin information Types and Varieties, Overlays
Jefferson nickel doubled dies Wexler/Rebar complete listings

trail dies:http://www.traildies.com/
Edited by coop
04/09/2021 09:42 am
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United States
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 Posted 04/09/2021  05:06 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Jbdcboy to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Coop,
I very much appreciate your patience and educational flair. Between the DDD and the MD I'm with quequerre, no I'm never gonna to get it!! But your explanation helps at least visualize the why.
Curious, with a single press coin, is a DDO/R still possible? I'd think not but?
Thanks
JB
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 Posted 04/09/2021  09:23 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add coop to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Well the dies are made separately.

So there could be a DDO and a DDR on the same coin. But MD is the common example of Machine Doubling on both sides on a coin.
Richard S. Cooper
Some have asked about my images I use and I'm glad to say, you can now you can see the DVD in sections on youtube:
1. Intro, older coins, toned coins 2. Doubled dies 3. Die events, One of a kind errors 4. So called errors, Coin information 5. Coin information Types and Varieties, Overlays
Jefferson nickel doubled dies Wexler/Rebar complete listings

trail dies:http://www.traildies.com/
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