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A Few Questions On Old Islamic Coins

 
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Author Previous TopicReplies: 7 / Views: 219Next Topic  
Pillar of the Community

Australia
1379 Posts
 Posted 11/23/2022  12:56 am Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add David Graham to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
Hi,

I have a few general questions on old islamic coins.

1) 1 coin from the Mughal empire dated 1580s has a KM# but what Krause Catalogue covers islamic coins from that period? I assume GG does not cover Mughal Empire.
2) I while ago I found a few threads written by a member of either CC or Numista that went through some of the princely state coins and detailed what the different symbols meant. Very interesting. Can I find the threads now? Of course not. Would love it if anyone knows the ,member I'm referring to (and platform).

Thanks
Valued Member
United States
220 Posts
 Posted 11/23/2022  08:56 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add bjherbison to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The Mughal coin is probably in The Standard guide to South Asian coins and paper money since 1556 AD. But there are also KM number assignments that aren't in the catalogs. I believe it is likely some KM editors assigned numbers to issuers without worrying about when a catalog would be issued for the types. (There are MB numbers I've been give for coins from Hungary dated 1509-1586.)

You could search on the KM number in numismaster.com so see if it is in that database. (My Hungarian MB numbers don't appear to be.)
Valued Member
United States
220 Posts
 Posted 11/23/2022  08:58 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add bjherbison to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Actually, I just found one of the Hungarian MB numbers:
https://numismaster.com/MC_152842
Searching for Hungary 27 finds it, but Hungary 1509 doesn't even though the coin is listed as being issued in 1509.
Moderator
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Australia
14823 Posts
 Posted 11/23/2022  6:43 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Sap to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
1. If a coin design was commenced prior to 1600 but continued after 1600, then that coin design will have a KM number. Since Akbar was emperor in both 1580 and 1600, then it seems possible that at least some of the later Akbar types will "have Krause numbers", even if the specific dates aren't listed in any Krause.

And yes, the Goron and Goenka catalogue specifically excludes Mughal and post-Mughal Princely State coinages, just like it excludes the coinages on non-Islamic mediaeval India.

2. If it was here on CCF, then it's likely the member who posted your lost thread was drnsreedhar, who posts a lot of catalogue-style threads on various Indian coin series. Here's one he did on Princely State coinages.
Don't say "infinitely" when you mean "very"; otherwise, you'll have no word left when you want to talk about something really infinite. - C. S. Lewis
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Australia
14823 Posts
 Posted 11/23/2022  7:35 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Sap to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Finally, an observation.

Many people who collect "Islamic coins" draw the line at including Indian coins in their collections. The Indian Islamic series is simply too broad, complex, and mixed up with non-Islamic native coinages; Indian coins are thus typically tossed into the "too hard" basket (much like many collectors of mainstream world coins often do), leaving them for the Indian coinage specialists. The Stephen Album book "Checklist of Islamic Coins", for example, specifically excludes them.

Thus, for all practical purposes, Indian coins are "not Islamic" - despite clearly being in Arabic script, making frequent mention of Allah and occasionally quoting from the Qu'ran. If you have an unknown coin with Arabic writing on it, it's OK to call it "Islamic", but if you know they're Indian coins, then it's probably best to call them "Indian", rather than "Islamic", to attract the attention of the correct experts.
Don't say "infinitely" when you mean "very"; otherwise, you'll have no word left when you want to talk about something really infinite. - C. S. Lewis
Pillar of the Community
Australia
1379 Posts
 Posted 11/24/2022  02:46 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add David Graham to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
@bjherbison - Thanks for the information. Yes, it could be in the The Standard guide to South Asian coins but I haven't got a copy.

@SAP - Thanks also for the extra information. I think I've got the 1601-1700 KM catalogue so will have a look. Have noted the different usage of the terms Islamic so will call all coins from India as Indian coins, even the ones with Islamic text.
Pillar of the Community
United Kingdom
1146 Posts
 Posted 11/25/2022  3:30 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add andyg to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Krause were working on a project to produce a catalogue for the period 1501-1600, many coins were given MB# in readyness - but the project never came to fruition and likely never will now the books have been sold to PenguinRandomHouse, while the database has been sold to someone else....!

I forget what MB stands for - it's the initials of someone working on the project I think.

Mughal coppers from 1556 were part of the South Asian book as stated by Bjherbison and there was also a German States Krause 1501 to present released - the rest just sat unloved in the database.
Edited by andyg
11/25/2022 3:31 pm
Pillar of the Community
United Kingdom
1146 Posts
 Posted 11/25/2022  3:44 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add andyg to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
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