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 Replies: 21 / Views: 2,911 |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3342 Posts |
I contacted Larry Briggs about getting a well chopmarked Trade dollar. Here's what he sent. Coin weight is 27.2 g, and Larry graded it AU. I counted 24 chopmarks on the reverse and 8 on the obverse. The coin does not lay flat, and the chops have almost completely obliterated Liberty, the eagle and the mintmark.   "Two minutes ago I would have sold my chances for a tired dime." Fred Astaire
Edited by thq
01/19/2023 12:01 am
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
11880 Posts |
Did you steal his lunch money when you were kids? I suppose he gave you what you asked for.  IN NECESSARIIS UNITAS - IN DUBIIS LIBERTAS - IN OMNIBUS CARITAS THE MAN IN THE ARENA, Theodore Roosevelt at the Sorbonne Paris on April 23, 1910: " It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles or where the doer of deeds could have done better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood, who strives valiantly, who errs and comes up short again and again, because there is no effort without error or shortcoming, but who knows the great enthusiasms, the great devotions, who spends himself in a worthy cause; who, at the best, knows, in the end, the triumph of high achievement, and who, at the worst, if he fails, at least he fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who knew neither victory nor defeat." My coin website: https://fairfaxcoins.com |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
94367 Posts |
Just goes to show - there's a customer for anything!
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
3342 Posts |
I used to be indifferent to Trade dollars. But after working for a company that exported most of its product to China, they got more interesting. The chopmarks are the evidence that the coins were used for their intended purpose. They circulated in Asia for 80 years. What makes this coin interesting to me is the sheer number of chops. Usually you see one or two. "Two minutes ago I would have sold my chances for a tired dime." Fred Astaire
Edited by thq
01/18/2023 9:25 pm
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Rest in Peace
United States
4078 Posts |
Thq, can I ask you why would a Trade dollar have so many chop marks compared to one with none? Is there more value in one with no marks? Can the marks be identified or valued in historical meaning? Thanks. |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
11880 Posts |
Not thq, but guessing that it was involved in many transactions and each time the party receiving the coin chopped it to show that the coin was tested by that merchant and to indicate that it was made of silver.
From Michael Marotta at CW:
"But then, as now, enterprise in China was often on the dicey side: fake coins were a problem. The solution was the chopmark. Merchants would test coins and then stamp them with a mark of their own. The merchants were often from a special class of trained technicians called "shroffs." The word originated in the Arabic/Islamic lands. Schools of shroffage blossomed in China. From the 1600s to the middle of the 20th century, shroffs were moneychangers and bankers in Shanghai, Hong Kong, and other centers of trade where western buyers met Chinese sellers.
And so millions of silver coins, usually the big dollars, but almost any silver coin, were stamped. The marks are often Chinese characters, such as tien for heaven or li for profit. Sometimes they are more abstract, a sunburst or swastika. The numeral "8" familiar to us is also common by way of cultural transference because "8" is widely considered a lucky number in East Asia.
There are many ways to validate a coin, the most laborious of which is the specific gravity test. You cannot do a bag of a thousand silver dollars one at a time that way. Instead, you can balance the coin on your finger and tap it. It will ring. We believe that shroffs could pick, balance, brush, and hear a coin in a second."
Chopping the coin doesn't remove any silver so it could be chopped many times. This coins exhibits signs of mishandling and poor storage beyond being chopped.
IN NECESSARIIS UNITAS - IN DUBIIS LIBERTAS - IN OMNIBUS CARITAS THE MAN IN THE ARENA, Theodore Roosevelt at the Sorbonne Paris on April 23, 1910: " It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles or where the doer of deeds could have done better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood, who strives valiantly, who errs and comes up short again and again, because there is no effort without error or shortcoming, but who knows the great enthusiasms, the great devotions, who spends himself in a worthy cause; who, at the best, knows, in the end, the triumph of high achievement, and who, at the worst, if he fails, at least he fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who knew neither victory nor defeat." My coin website: https://fairfaxcoins.comEdited by numismatic student
01/18/2023 10:10 pm
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3342 Posts |
I don't know the answers bpoc1. It's the first US Trade dollar I've ever owned. I was hoping some Trade dollar enthusiasts would chime in. The chops are deep, and are more apparent than the coin's original features. I don't know what kind of surfaces the coin was placed on to hammer the chops, but judging from the beat up obverse high point details they were pretty rough. The protected fields that aren't chopped are clean (especially on the reverse), and support Larry's AU assessment IMO. Except for a couple of dates the chopmarked coins are a lot rarer than the unchopped. The ones in Asia circulated until they wore out. The Trade dollars circulated in the US in small numbers, but were not accepted at par, and some merchants rejected them completely. After July 1876 they ceased to be legal tender and became bullion, further reducing the supply of unchopped coins. From what I've seen the unchopped coins tend to sell for more at the same grade. The grading services usually detail grade chopped coins, which lowers their price, and makes the straight grade coins that much more valuable, especially in the higher grades. "Two minutes ago I would have sold my chances for a tired dime." Fred Astaire
Edited by thq
01/19/2023 12:36 pm
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4233 Posts |
Gosh, that's a lot of chopmarks. Apparently they didn't trust another merchant's chopmark.
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Moderator
 United States
15389 Posts |
Interesting example for sure.
Take a look at my other hobby ... http://www.jk-dk.art |
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Rest in Peace
United States
4078 Posts |
 Thank you fellow members. A wealth of information. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3342 Posts |
"Two minutes ago I would have sold my chances for a tired dime." Fred Astaire
Edited by thq
01/19/2023 09:31 am
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Moderator
United States
187702 Posts |
Not one I would ever want, but still an interesting example.  |
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Valued Member
China
141 Posts |
At that time, there were many small banks (private) in China's coastal cities. These stamps are sometimes used to check whether it is a counterfeit coin with silver and copper, and sometimes to prove and record that this coin flows through a certain bank (small bank). There are many such trade-dollars here, and most of them are not good and cheap. This kind of stamp is also common in Spanish Carlos silver coins, Mexico 8R, etc   |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
630 Posts |
Quote:
"Gosh, that's a lot of chopmarks. Apparently they didn't trust another merchant's chopmark." *** Edited by Staff to add Quote tags. Please use them in the future. ***A merchant would probably have a favorite place to chop, and would look there to see if he once owned it, if by chance he received the coin again in commerce |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4680 Posts |
Not my wheelhouse, but can appreciate the history behind these.
Interesting just how many chop marks it has, yet it remains in AU condition. Must have remained relatively untouched between merchants, or jumped from merchant to merchant quickly.
Thanks for sharing.
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Valued Member
United States
397 Posts |
Personally, I think the chopmarks are really cool. There is a LOT of history there!
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Replies: 21 / Views: 2,911 |
Posted 01/18/2023 8:57 pm
