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Canadian 1968 10 Cents / 25 Cents 80% Silver Transition Error? Any Known Coin Examples?

 
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Canada
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 Posted 09/18/2023  01:01 am Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add lucolego to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
1967 and 1968 years are amazing for coin collectors, for 10 and 25 cents. First of all, in 1967, both denominations have 80% silver (struck up until mid-67). In the second half of 1967, due to silver price raise, the Mint ceased production of 50 cents and Dollars (why no 50% variety of them exist) and continued minting 10 and 25 cents on 50% silver planchets instead of the normal 80% ones. The Mint probably forecasted more silver price rise, so they also started tests to strike 10 and 25 cents on 100% Nickel planchets, and a few experimental examples of both the 10 cents and 25 cents were made of nickel, and those are the holy grail! Both 80% and 50% coins of each have the same look, and the same weight (I think they made the 50% coins a bit thicker to match the weight of the 80%). So all 1967 10 cents should weigh 2.33g, and 25 cents 5.83g. The *only* way I can differentiate them is by the sound test "Ping", and compare the subject to both a 1966-or-before which is 80% and a 1968 silver which is a 50%. I then can put the 1967 subject in the right category!

Despite rising price of silver, the Royal Canadian Mint did a tremendously nice job for our Canadian Centennial by releasing what I see as the most gorgeous coin designs ever made (In my opinion) with the 6 animal designs for each denomination, and being able to keep all of them in silver for the whole year! Even though I recently learned they stopped 50 cents and dollars mid year, I assume they already have made enough for the whole year... Our Royal Canadian Mint celebrated the end of 1967 and started 1968, continuing to strike 10 and 25 cents in 50% silver. Again, mid-year, the price of silver continued to rise, so they were really forced to stop silver completely, and I once read the switch started to be made in August. Both Nickel 10 and 25 cents weigh less than their silver conterparts, so 2.07g and 5.05g respectively, and being magnetic, it is easy to differenciate from silver coins. Of course, nickel won't sound test "Ping" silvery at all!

Those 2 fascinating years in Canadian coinage leave me with a question: do any 10 or 25 cents dated 1968 transition error coins, struck on a 80% planchet insted of the intended 50%? That's my BIG question! Then those error coins would look similar to the 50%, weigh the same as well, but what if a sound test of a *very rare* example would prove a holy grail 1968 "pings" like a 1966-or-before silver?

Has anyone else thought of that, or even better, found an example proving such an error exists?
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Canada
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 Posted 09/18/2023  01:50 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add DBM to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
"Ping" test proves nothing, it's just an educated guess.
In the 21st century we have XRF, and that's what it will take to find what you are looking for.
If you can afford it then go for it.
Let us know if you find one.
"Dipping" is not considered cleaning...
-from PCGS website
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Canada
4781 Posts
 Posted 09/18/2023  02:23 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add oriole to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I used to have an app on my phone that would easily tell the difference between the 50% and the 80% silver coins, due to the difference in resonant frequencies. This does not rely on subjective hearing.
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Canada
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 Posted 09/18/2023  03:47 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add lucolego to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Well, I don't know what you mean by "XRF", but good hearing skills will
be able to make the comparisons, and set the suspect coin in the right
category when compared with a known 50% and a known 80%. You don't
need a stupid cell phone to do that!
The only thing better than ping test would be a gravity test that requires letting
the coin drop in water around a rope, and weighing (with the tare for the tools).
I never did that, but if the ping test proves to be a 1968 at 80% silver, then it's
time to do the gravity test to confirm without a doubt...
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Australia
21185 Posts
 Posted 09/18/2023  04:02 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add sel_69l to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Is there a comparative electro resistive test available ?
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9226 Posts
 Posted 09/18/2023  09:36 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add DBM to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Well, I don't know what you mean by "XRF"

You should step into the 21st century.
"Dipping" is not considered cleaning...
-from PCGS website
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9226 Posts
 Posted 09/18/2023  10:26 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add DBM to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
For many years the Mint employed people to "ring" all the silver coins as they came off the press.
People expected that their silver coins should have a particular ring to them.
Were the rejected coins not genuine coins straight off the press ?
The Mint is in the business of making money in both senses of the word so if the number of rejected coins was insignificant the "ringers" would no longer be necessary.
If your theory that all 80% coins ring true is correct then why did the RCM and other mints around the world employ ringers.
The ringers were likely a thing of the past by '67 and '68 so how would you know for sure you don't have a "dud".
"Dipping" is not considered cleaning...
-from PCGS website
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3388 Posts
 Posted 09/18/2023  12:48 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add kbbpll to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
XRF stands for X-ray Fluorescence, a spectrometer that measures composition. I suppose an 80% planchet could have been "stuck in the hopper" like the US 1943 bronze cents.
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5140 Posts
 Posted 09/18/2023  1:00 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add john100 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
An XRF will confirm your thoughts about 50% or 80% silver planchet, but I doubt error collectors will be on the must have list, good luck and welcome ! Simply an XRF is an Xray
Edited by john100
09/18/2023 1:01 pm
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Topic Starter
Canada
4 Posts
 Posted 09/18/2023  3:26 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add lucolego to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
You're right that not *all* 80% silver coins ring the same. I have a 1960 dime
that rings really dull, almost no silvery ringing when spinning on the table, but
if you listen carefully, you hear a "base tone" that sounds like all other 80%
coins I have tested in my life. Some other 80% dimes ring less than others, but
they all have the base tone. As of 50% coins, all the ones I have had so far ring
the same, but have a different base tone, proving they're 50%. I guess I have not come
across yet a 50% that rings dull, but it most probably exists. I don't know why that, but
the ringers at the Mint would certainly have rejected the 1960 if they came across it, but that doesn't mean it's a fake. The XRF test (no I know what it means, and they use that in forensic science to analyze evidence and find criminals) is another test to confirm sound test, but it doesn't mean sound test is not good.

Same for US coins. Especially half dollars. Sound test is obvious to classify pre-1965 90% silver, 1965-70 40% silver clad, and 1971+ nickel clad. ALL 3 have a different ringing sound, even the modern clad has no silver at all. All of their coins apart zinc pennies and nickels have "silvery" ringing even modern clad. I'm sure this is because of the copper contents. BTW, none of them is magnetic. So copper and silver alloys have a different base tone according of the composition of each. In Canada, alas, we don't have a denomination to CRH as cool as US Halves, but somewhere in 1997, I was lucky enough to sneak in a Currency Exchange teller drawer and ask for "USA 50 cents". She pulled out 20 halves or so, and I picked up 3 "Walking Liberty" 1934, 1941 and 1943, as well as several 40% Kennedys. Later on I bought a 1963 Franklin half. I carefully "Ping tested" all these 4 90%. The 1934 and 1941 ring identical, but surprisingly the 1943 and 1963 also ring identical, but have a slightly different base tone as the 1934 and 1941! That surprised me! All 4 must be 90%, but was there a "secret" undocumented wartime slight alloy modification that remained until 1964? I'm much convinced so, and I'm sure the XRF test will pick up the difference. To continue investigating, I'd love to pick up some 1942s, other 41s and 43s as well, to know where they belong and when exactly the secret modification occured. Being able to test other years as well would allow me to prove or disprove my theory, but I have no others so far (being in Canada). Remember that in 1942, they switched nickels to a 35% silver alloy for wartime. This is documented, but did they do secret subtle changes to their halves or other 90% silver coins as well?
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5140 Posts
 Posted 09/18/2023  5:13 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add john100 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Sound tests and the simple look test as some collectors will say the higher silver content looks brighter, when today almost all large gold buyer shops or coin dealers will have an XRF and they are very precise. Hope you don"t mind, your methods are 25 years old, today"s tech is instant and accurate to prove your dime.
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