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 Replies: 16 / Views: 4,594 |
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New Member
Canada
13 Posts |
1967 and 1968 years are amazing for coin collectors, for 10 and 25 cents. First of all, in 1967, both denominations have 80% silver (struck up until mid-67). In the second half of 1967, due to silver price raise, the Mint ceased production of 50 cents and Dollars (why no 50% variety of them exist) and continued minting 10 and 25 cents on 50% silver planchets instead of the normal 80% ones. The Mint probably forecasted more silver price rise, so they also started tests to strike 10 and 25 cents on 100% Nickel planchets, and a few experimental examples of both the 10 cents and 25 cents were made of nickel, and those are the holy grail! Both 80% and 50% coins of each have the same look, and the same weight (I think they made the 50% coins a bit thicker to match the weight of the 80%). So all 1967 10 cents should weigh 2.33g, and 25 cents 5.83g. The *only* way I can differentiate them is by the sound test "Ping", and compare the subject to both a 1966-or-before which is 80% and a 1968 silver which is a 50%. I then can put the 1967 subject in the right category! Despite rising price of silver, the Royal Canadian Mint did a tremendously nice job for our Canadian Centennial by releasing what I see as the most gorgeous coin designs ever made (In my opinion) with the 6 animal designs for each denomination, and being able to keep all of them in silver for the whole year! Even though I recently learned they stopped 50 cents and dollars mid year, I assume they already have made enough for the whole year... Our Royal Canadian Mint celebrated the end of 1967 and started 1968, continuing to strike 10 and 25 cents in 50% silver. Again, mid-year, the price of silver continued to rise, so they were really forced to stop silver completely, and I once read the switch started to be made in August. Both Nickel 10 and 25 cents weigh less than their silver conterparts, so 2.07g and 5.05g respectively, and being magnetic, it is easy to differenciate from silver coins. Of course, nickel won't sound test "Ping" silvery at all! Those 2 fascinating years in Canadian coinage leave me with a question: do any 10 or 25 cents dated 1968 transition error coins, struck on a 80% planchet insted of the intended 50%? That's my BIG question! Then those error coins would look similar to the 50%, weigh the same as well, but what if a sound test of a *very rare* example would prove a holy grail 1968 "pings" like a 1966-or-before silver? Has anyone else thought of that, or even better, found an example proving such an error exists? |
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Pillar of the Community
 Canada
9862 Posts |
"Ping" test proves nothing, it's just an educated guess.
In the 21st century we have XRF, and that's what it will take to find what you are looking for.
If you can afford it then go for it.
Let us know if you find one.
"Dipping" is not considered cleaning...
-from PCGS website
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
5238 Posts |
I used to have an app on my phone that would easily tell the difference between the 50% and the 80% silver coins, due to the difference in resonant frequencies. This does not rely on subjective hearing.
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New Member
 Canada
13 Posts |
Well, I don't know what you mean by "XRF", but good hearing skills will
be able to make the comparisons, and set the suspect coin in the right
category when compared with a known 50% and a known 80%. You don't
need a stupid cell phone to do that!
The only thing better than ping test would be a gravity test that requires letting
the coin drop in water around a rope, and weighing (with the tare for the tools).
I never did that, but if the ping test proves to be a 1968 at 80% silver, then it's
time to do the gravity test to confirm without a doubt...
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Bedrock of the Community
Australia
21786 Posts |
Is there a comparative electro resistive test available ?
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
9862 Posts |
Quote:
Well, I don't know what you mean by "XRF" You should step into the 21st century. "Dipping" is not considered cleaning...
-from PCGS website
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
9862 Posts |
For many years the Mint employed people to "ring" all the silver coins as they came off the press. People expected that their silver coins should have a particular ring to them. Were the rejected coins not genuine coins straight off the press ? The Mint is in the business of making money in both senses of the word so if the number of rejected coins was insignificant the "ringers" would no longer be necessary. If your theory that all 80% coins ring true is correct then why did the RCM and other mints around the world employ ringers. The ringers were likely a thing of the past by '67 and '68 so how would you know for sure you don't have a "dud". "Dipping" is not considered cleaning...
-from PCGS website
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4233 Posts |
XRF stands for X-ray Fluorescence, a spectrometer that measures composition. I suppose an 80% planchet could have been "stuck in the hopper" like the US 1943 bronze cents.
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
5324 Posts |
An XRF will confirm your thoughts about 50% or 80% silver planchet, but I doubt error collectors will be on the must have list, good luck and welcome ! Simply an XRF is an Xray
Edited by john100
09/18/2023 1:01 pm
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New Member
Canada
13 Posts |
You're right that not *all* 80% silver coins ring the same. I have a 1960 dime that rings really dull, almost no silvery ringing when spinning on the table, but if you listen carefully, you hear a "base tone" that sounds like all other 80% coins I have tested in my life. Some other 80% dimes ring less than others, but they all have the base tone. As of 50% coins, all the ones I have had so far ring the same, but have a different base tone, proving they're 50%. I guess I have not come across yet a 50% that rings dull, but it most probably exists. I don't know why that, but the ringers at the Mint would certainly have rejected the 1960 if they came across it, but that doesn't mean it's a fake. The XRF test (no I know what it means, and they use that in forensic science to analyze evidence and find criminals) is another test to confirm sound test, but it doesn't mean sound test is not good. Same for US coins. Especially half dollars. Sound test is obvious to classify pre-1965 90% silver, 1965-70 40% silver clad, and 1971+ nickel clad. ALL 3 have a different ringing sound, even the modern clad has no silver at all. All of their coins apart zinc pennies and nickels have "silvery" ringing even modern clad. I'm sure this is because of the copper contents. BTW, none of them is magnetic. So copper and silver alloys have a different base tone according of the composition of each. In Canada, alas, we don't have a denomination to CRH as cool as US Halves, but somewhere in 1997, I was lucky enough to sneak in a Currency Exchange teller drawer and ask for "USA 50 cents". She pulled out 20 halves or so, and I picked up 3 "Walking Liberty" 1934, 1941 and 1943, as well as several 40% Kennedys. Later on I bought a 1963 Franklin half. I carefully "Ping tested" all these 4 90%. The 1934 and 1941 ring identical, but surprisingly the 1943 and 1963 also ring identical, but have a slightly different base tone as the 1934 and 1941! That surprised me! All 4 must be 90%, but was there a "secret" undocumented wartime slight alloy modification that remained until 1964? I'm much convinced so, and I'm sure the XRF test will pick up the difference. To continue investigating, I'd love to pick up some 1942s, other 41s and 43s as well, to know where they belong and when exactly the secret modification occured. Being able to test other years as well would allow me to prove or disprove my theory, but I have no others so far (being in Canada). Remember that in 1942, they switched nickels to a 35% silver alloy for wartime. This is documented, but did they do secret subtle changes to their halves or other 90% silver coins as well? |
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
5324 Posts |
Sound tests and the simple look test as some collectors will say the higher silver content looks brighter, when today almost all large gold buyer shops or coin dealers will have an XRF and they are very precise. Hope you don"t mind, your methods are 25 years old, today"s tech is instant and accurate to prove your dime.
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New Member
Canada
13 Posts |
25-year-old techniques are as good. I should say I'm using these techniques since my
teens in the early 80s, and it's one of the reason why I collect coins! The look and sound
of silver coins is so beautiful, so both of my senses (BTW, I'm visually impaired, but still see enough from close, and obviously have excellent hearing) are feeling so good whenever I
discover a new silver coin, especially when CRH, and start looking at it and pinging it with my fingernail to confirm its composition. If I had XRF at home, I'd certainly do it as well, but the good old techniques have the tremendous advantage to not require any tools, and being 100% performed by the human body! I also like copper for this reason, and ringing pennies (both Canadian and USA) to determine which are copper is part of the fun! I obviously can determine which USA 1982s are copper and which are zinc alloy with the same ping test! And imaging what..., 1942 is also an important year in Canada with the introduction of wartime alloys. Canadian pennies have more tin before 1942, and when brown, their look is a bit more towards the dark gray. After 1942, they have more zinc, I believe, and when toned, the brown stays brown. The look is subjective, but the ring test of each category has a subtle difference only people with good hearing will pick up. 1942 is the transition year and there exists pennies in both categories. None is rare, and I have 3 of each in my collection and can make the difference. I suspect the subtle penny transition occured in the same period they switched from the round nickel nickel, to the tombac nickel, during 1942!
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
5324 Posts |
By dropping coins you can turn a MS coin into an Au I have seen many really rare penny on a dime that someone has put a nasty scratch to see if it"s plated destroying at least half the value because they did not have todays easy methods, each to their own
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New Member
Canada
13 Posts |
Obviously, when testing coins, I handle them by the edge, and never drop it on a
hard surface. It drops on something soft like a towel. These tests are non-destructive. I
would never scratch a coin, not even to test it. I would be smart enough to prefer leaving it
as-is, untested, until I find a non-destructive way...
Since I did not ditch my intelligence onto one of those stupid smartphones, I still can write sentences with punctuation marks, capitals when needed, etc... That's the 20th Century
strength I'm proudly bringing into the 21st...
Guess what. Yesterday while CRH, I found a 1968 dime that someone really mutilated by
somehow making saw-cuts into both sides, and I realized some of these cuts turn into holes
so we can see through these holes in the coin. It's magnetic, so not silver, but when dropping
it on a hard surface (I can let this one fall on the table with no fear), it makes a surprising
ringing sound like it would be aluminum! It weighs 1.45g! It looks nickel like others, but even
with these cuts, I would not imagine it would have lost over 0.6g (2.07g is the normal weight).
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Pillar of the Community
 Canada
5393 Posts |
The chances are quite realistic that some 80 per cent silver
1968 pieces could show . The only certain way is expensive
though . Just get access to an XRF and have at it .
Also quite realistic, the chance of finding a sterling silver ten cents
Of George VI ( 1938-44) Canada as NF coins were struck in Ottawa
and were sterling silver.
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
6244 Posts |
The reality it is some 800 Ag 1968 exist. Those coins are easy detectable by colos over the years and specialy with XRF. The App someone here mention it is an effemere.
Those coins and I saw one has no hystory. It is an Mint forced error? or just an hazard of previous year remainings? Both could be really.
To days an acceptable XRF could be find for 1K (not the best one) Me I use more DSX which it is another soup.
Edited by silviosi
10/09/2023 8:12 pm
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Replies: 16 / Views: 4,594 |
Posted 09/18/2023 02:23 am
