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 Replies: 10 / Views: 398 |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3357 Posts |
I picked up this coin on ebay. Here's the previous Heritage sale from the Salmon Collection. Their photos are better than what I can do, though they're a poor resemblance to the dark shilling. https://coins.ha.com/itm/colonials/...bnail-071515The seller sent the Heritage material. Someone had slipped a handwritten Fake Coin note in with it. There are some strong opinions about it. Yet NGC slabbed it. And there is only one in existence. To me it looks like a heavily clipped Noe-5. It's 15% light. The parts of the coin with the diagnostic die cracks are missing. My main question is whether it's the modern fake many critics think it is. Yesterday I went to the LCS for XRF's. I took a 1653 Commonwealth shilling and a Mexico 1630-1660 8R cob along for comparison. All three tested identical at 98-99% silver and 1-2% copper in the holders. I have seen similar high silver measures on other 200+ year old silver coins (surface depletion of copper maybe). While this doesn't necessarily prove authenticity, it's silver and similar to contemporary silver coins. If it's a fake the counterfeiter succeeded in faking the aged composition of a 1652 shilling exactly. "Two minutes ago I would have sold my chances for a tired dime." Fred Astaire
Edited by thq
09/05/2026 4:00 pm
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
78242 Posts |
Very interesting.  I can't provide any insight, since I don't know anything about these. Errers and Varietys.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1347 Posts |
That looks like a gamble to me. JMHO
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
3357 Posts |
I like it for the noteriety. Someone pinscratched the brand new holder. The colonial family of collectors are a really weird bunch IMO. The coin appeared in the market in 1988 so it's not like the current chinesium Morgans.
Why these kooks didn't do simple xrf is beyond me. At least NGC weighed it. It's not pretty but neither are many of these shillings.
"Two minutes ago I would have sold my chances for a tired dime." Fred Astaire
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Pillar of the Community
United States
9806 Posts |
I'd love to have any coin from the Christopher Salmon Collection real or not. A great provenance to have, regardless what the TPGs and experts agree on or don't agree on. It's a neat coin and it wasn't stupid money, while still expensive if it turns out not to be I think you did okay.
Composition of metal would not be definitive either as any counterfeiter that is worth his weight would be using an old coin from the same era that is worth a lot less to melt down for the metal to make this one, that way it would pass all the metallurgical tests.
"Buy the Book Before You Buy the Coin" - Aaron R. Feldman - "And read it" - Me 2013! ANA Life Member #3288 in good standing since 1981, ANS, Early American Coppers Member (EAC), Colonial Coin Collectors Club member (C4), Conder Token Collector Club member (CTCC), Civil War Token Society (CWTS) member, Liberty Seated Collectors Club (LSCC) & Numismatic Bibliomania Society member (NBS), USMex, Member in good standing, 2˘ variety collector. See my want page: http://goccf.com/t/140440 |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3357 Posts |
Certainly it could be a fake done by a real expert. You can get the right metal from Mexican cobs pretty cheaply. But it's not like modern fakes, and it isn't as preposterous as some of the contemporary counterfeits Swamper Bob used to post. And this is the only one that has ever shown up.
I'll never prove it one way or another. Better oak trees easily sell for 10x as much. It's an interesting niche.
I'm going to try to rub out the pinscratches. It's a malicious piece of work and it makes it hard to see the coin. Someday maybe I'll get it reholdered.
"Two minutes ago I would have sold my chances for a tired dime." Fred Astaire
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3357 Posts |
I was able to get rid of the pin scratches on the holder using 1200 grit wet sandpaper, then repolished the surface with silver cream. Here's the best I can do to show the coin close to its appearance. The lower photo is pretty close to the overall dark grey color in-hand. I can't tell what the die state is because it's missing the edges at 12 o'clock and 3 o'clock on the date side, which show large die cracks on most Noe-5's. What attracted me was the strength of the oak tree, which is faint on many of these coins.   "Two minutes ago I would have sold my chances for a tired dime." Fred Astaire
Edited by thq
Yesterday 5:43 pm
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1673 Posts |
I can't help but you've piqued my interest. I need to spend some time with the Salmon book if I ever get a day off from work.
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
11961 Posts |
My thought is that if Chris Salmon thought and documented in his reference book, as a preeminent expert in this field, that the authenticity of this coin was questionable, what do I know to be able to argue otherwise? Anthony Terranova, another giant in this field also thinks it is a fake.  The description for the listing says: "NGC authenticated and graded XF Details. iridescent gray and brown toning with a jagged, uneven edge. Discussed by Christopher Salmon in his "Counterfeits and Questionable Varieties" section in his "The Silver Coins of Massachusetts" reference book along with the Noe-5.1 and a few other varieties. He considers both as questionable issues. 64.0 grains. Ex; Christopher J. Salmon Collection Year - 1652 Variety - Noe-5.8, Salmon 12-X Rarity - " IN NECESSARIIS UNITAS - IN DUBIIS LIBERTAS - IN OMNIBUS CARITAS THE MAN IN THE ARENA, Theodore Roosevelt at the Sorbonne Paris on April 23, 1910: " It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles or where the doer of deeds could have done better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood, who strives valiantly, who errs and comes up short again and again, because there is no effort without error or shortcoming, but who knows the great enthusiasms, the great devotions, who spends himself in a worthy cause; who, at the best, knows, in the end, the triumph of high achievement, and who, at the worst, if he fails, at least he fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who knew neither victory nor defeat." My coin website: https://fairfaxcoins.com |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
11961 Posts |
Having said that, it is a very pretty coin. As a fake, it looks every bit like what it pretends to be with exceptional eye appeal.
IN NECESSARIIS UNITAS - IN DUBIIS LIBERTAS - IN OMNIBUS CARITAS THE MAN IN THE ARENA, Theodore Roosevelt at the Sorbonne Paris on April 23, 1910: " It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles or where the doer of deeds could have done better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood, who strives valiantly, who errs and comes up short again and again, because there is no effort without error or shortcoming, but who knows the great enthusiasms, the great devotions, who spends himself in a worthy cause; who, at the best, knows, in the end, the triumph of high achievement, and who, at the worst, if he fails, at least he fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who knew neither victory nor defeat." My coin website: https://fairfaxcoins.com |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3357 Posts |
Thanks numismatic. In buying it I learned a lot about the curious community of colonial collectors. Pinscratching the face of the holder is pretty sketchy behavior for such a rarefied community.
if it is a fake it's on a different level than the Wyatt sixpence copies, which have similar pricing but with appearance far superior to the surviving coins. I wonder why anyone would fake a crappy clipped coin using the right metal. I suppose it could be a challenge for a real artist.
I have not been able to find a picture of Noe-5.1. I also haven't seen any provenance for this coin prior to 1988. I wonder whether it was known to Noe when he wrote his book.
"Two minutes ago I would have sold my chances for a tired dime." Fred Astaire
Edited by thq
Today 47M ago
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Replies: 10 / Views: 398 |
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Posted 09/06/2026 08:13 am
