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 Replies: 10 / Views: 320 |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
780 Posts |
I just received this dime I got at a recent Heritage Auction. I already shared it in the grading forum, but I'm making a different post here, asking a very different question. In the grading forum, several people guessed AU(55), which is interesting because I just saw that on the PCGS photograde page for this design, this same exact coin, minus two defining features IS the AU(55) example, when PCGS themselves have this coin in an MS(63) holder. I don't think they are similar coins--I think they are the same--the diagnoal lines on the obverse, the exact patterns and colors of toning--there are just two things missing in the Photo Grade picture--a little mark on Liberty's forehead on the obverse, and the diagnol line that goes through the eagle's head on the reverse--other than that, I think it's the same coin. In hand, the luster on this dime is much better tthan it looks in these photos. I'm posting the True View photos, my own photos, and the photograph photos (in that order). Here is my question: What happened? Why would this be the Photograde example for AU(55) when the same company graded this MS(63)? And did they photoshop the Photograde example? Why are those two identifying characteristics missing? I doubt they just suddenly appeared. The coin is in an older PCGS blue lable holder, like the ones they used around 2000, that don't let us see the rims of the coins that well. Here is my MS63 coin.     Here is the AU55 photograde coin   Here is the slab  |
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Bedrock of the Community
 United States
27394 Posts |
Quote:
And did they photoshop the Photograde example? I think that's exactly what happened, Adam590! It seems that every discernible mark on your coin and the True View (besides the two you mentioned) is also present on the AU55 specimen. If I had to venture a guess, I would say that PCGS maybe did not have appropriate images of an AU55 coin for the photograde page so they made them. Inordinately fascinated by bits of metal with strange markings and figures
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
780 Posts |
Thanks, @HondoB. PCGS calls this coin MS(63) now, and I don't see any auctions records of this coin being sold as an AU(55). What I am wondering now is: Did PCGS originally grade this one at AU(55) and up the grade when someone resubmitted it right before an auction? Or was it always an MS(63) and they did something else I couldn't detect to the image in their photograde?
I see a spot on Liberty's left breast that looks like it could be wear or strike weakness, but I am very pleasantly surprised by the luster on this coin. This begs the question: if this coin was originally graded AU(55), and again, I can't find any proof that it was, did PCGS overgrade it for an auction house? Or do they really believe this coin is uncirculated?
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
27394 Posts |
Your coin is MS63. I think they photoshopped the True View of your coin to downgrade the images to AU55 for use on their Photograde page.
Inordinately fascinated by bits of metal with strange markings and figures
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Pillar of the Community
United States
961 Posts |
This is strange. It's clearly the same coin. I'd contact PCGS and challenge them to remove it as an AU55 example and post it in the "Other Images" section as the 63 that it is graded.
That said, I had it at 55 and I still lean that way based on scrolling through photo grade and other 62/63 images on PCGS. Of course it's all subjective.
I hope you get some answers. Keep us posted.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
7312 Posts |
Very interesting......  |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
6884 Posts |
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Your coin is MS63. I think they photoshopped the True View of your coin to downgrade the images to AU55 for use on their Photograde page. I concur. They faded the MS63 images to approximate circulation wear. If there aren't enough images for a full Photograde lineup, I suppose that becomes necessary. I wouldn't poke them about it. Your coin is worth more in the MS63 holder than an AU55 holder. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4504 Posts |
Another possibility is that the coin was in a PCGS AU55 holder and it was cracked out and put in an album. The toning streak mark on reverse and spot on Liberty's forehead could easily occur in an album. The streak mark on the reverse is not likely to happen in the PCGS MS63 slab unless it was per exposed to sulfur and the streak darkened over time. Grading coins with strike issues can and will vary depending on the grader's knowledge of the series and the weight given to the strike issues. Your PCGS holder is Gen 4.4 was used from 2005 to 2011 as barcode on front and no coin or series numbers. The Photograde program was started in 2009, so PCGS could of had a photo of the coin in a AU55 holder without the streak.
The coin is a beautiful example that looks original and correctly graded at MS63. I looked at the other examples graded MS63 and you coin fits in perfect with the softness on the reverse strike.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3514 Posts |
If PCGS did as suggested here I would have no problem with that other than them not disclosing that fact.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3358 Posts |
The obverses are different. Your MS63 doesn't have the adjustment marks that the MS55 has. Your MS63 also has a die crack through ERT that the MS55 lacks.
The reverses look almost the same. However the MS63 lacks a group of small scratches in the stars above the M in UNUM that are on the MS55.
"Two minutes ago I would have sold my chances for a tired dime." Fred Astaire
Edited by thq
Today 1H 43M ago
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Pillar of the Community
United States
961 Posts |
THQ, the die crack you mention is present on both pictures, it is the same coin.
PCGS has graded 59 DBD in the heraldic eagle series as AU 55, I'd ask them nicely to find another example to present.
And if PCGS asserts that it is not the same coin, I'd ask that they provide the cert number for it. That's just me, though, and what I'd do in protecting my investment.
This is a high 4 figure coin at MS63, half as much at AU55. I think PCGS ought to give it the attention it deserves.
Edited by adam126402
Today 48M ago
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Replies: 10 / Views: 320 |
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Posted Yesterday 9:35 pm
