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 Replies: 16 / Views: 3,063 |
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Pillar of the Community
1028 Posts |
I picked this one up in a lot I recently purchased. Yes, I know the coin has been cleaned. Details, I think it can go G-6. Date is technically full, mottos are decent, tiny bit of horn, and hair and ribbon are probably at the VG level. The cleaning wasn't super severe, but looks to be done more recently so the coin hasn't had a chance to retone. In any event, what is THAT (look at obverse and red arrow). It looks like the rim is moving right into the field. Could it be PMD? If yes, it would have had to be powerful to just move the rim over and the rest of the coin shows no damage. I think it may have been struck that way. I am not not good with error coins so I definitely want some more opinions. What do you think. Pics of obverse and reverse below.   |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1431 Posts |
I'm not sure if you noticed it or not, but that nickel is a rare two-feather variety. Nice!
Not sure about the issue in question though.
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Pillar of the Community
 1028 Posts |
Oh yeah, you're right, I was aware of the variety, but I was so thrown off by what I think MAY be a defective die on the left at 9 o'clock that I forgot to check.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3345 Posts |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2602 Posts |
Die chip or lamination error? Two feather variety, makes this one rarer than the already rare key date. Nice find!
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2757 Posts |
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Pillar of the Community
1028 Posts |
It can't be a lamination error, there's no metal missing off of the coin's surface. I don't believe its a " Cud" in a strict sense the way we usually attribute those errors because the area in question wasn't unstruck due to a die break. It looks like the portion of the metal meant to be struck to complete the rim was instead struck over into the field. Like if something got in the way or if the die was defective otherwise. I don't want to say PMD (partially because I'm really hoping it isn't) only because it would take both a precise and powerful force to move the metal over like that and I can't think of anything that could do that and leave the rest off the coin flawless, at least as far as damage. The edge also just looks "mint-struck", it extends very cleanly from the rim probably even more so in hand than in the pics. I still am not completely positive about it. More opinions are needed! Anybody? Edited by hesgut
11/15/2011 9:51 pm
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Pillar of the Community
1028 Posts |
With all the experts on these boards, I was hoping for at least a few more opinions. Does nobody know what that is. I eventually want to sell (or possibly) trade this coin away and am slightly considering sending it to ANACS (since its cleaned), but I want more info first.
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Moderator
 United States
16679 Posts |
I may be wrong but I believe it's PMD. Looks like the rim was cut with something, moved, then entered circulation where it received wear, smoothing it down. swcoin.ecrater.com
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Pillar of the Community
1028 Posts |
Quote:I may be wrong but I believe it's PMD. Looks like the rim was cut with something, moved, then entered circulation where it received wear, smoothing it down. I was actually hoping somebody was going to say PMD so I can hear an opposing viewpoint. I see why you say that, but what do you know of that can cut and move a rim on a coin leaving the rest of it unchanged. Also, the picture is slightly deceiving with shadows. The "area" in question is not just hanging there or anything, it is completely attached to the field of the coin, like it was struck that way. You would need immense heat to attach something like that after the fact, also mutilating the coin. I can think of only two things that can do this. One is very powerful and hot machinery, that I believe would mutilate the coin otherwise. The other is a defective die at the mint. Edited by hesgut
11/16/2011 01:48 am
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4132 Posts |
I had a Jefferson nickel I found while roll hunting that was similar. At first I thought it was a Cud, but the more I looked at it, the more it looked like some sort of rim damage that had been flattened back into the coin over time or something. Eventually I was able to pry up the displaced metal with a knife edge, proving it was just PMD. I would be afraid to try that with a '21-S though. |
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Pillar of the Community
1028 Posts |
I respect all the opinions so far.
I have looked at the area under various levels of magnification, including pretty high, and the metal has not been moved there. I am 99.99% sure it is attached.
Something else that doesn't really seam evident from the picture is the amount of metal mistruck (IMO). The size of the "glob" is actually pretty significant is is more than the amount of metal missing from the rim. I am fairly certain of this. This gives credence to the theory of some sort of chipped die that mis-struck the rim entirely and left more metal in the "glob".
Keep in my that since we're dealing with a 2-feather variety, we already know we're dealing with an "old bad die", one that has been worked on, and one more likely to be defective otherwise.
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Pillar of the Community
1028 Posts |
Since I will be trying to sell the coin, what do you think I should say? I believe in earnest that it is a mint error, but I would feel uncomfortable claiming it is in a listing when there isn't a clear consensus. Neither of the two dissenting opinions I've heard so far seam to be positive that it's PMD, so I'm certainly not going to call it that. Then, I would feel stupid selling a semi-rare coin with an even rarer variety attributed and then just not even mentioning that obvious situation going on at 9 o'clock. It would make me seam insincere and could leave me open to a return. Also, how would you price this guy. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
5833 Posts |
hesgut, How bout a picture to the side of 9 o'clock position, perhaps that will give a better clue. As of now I also think is PMD. Hope Mr. Diamond can chime in... |
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Pillar of the Community
1028 Posts |
I am providing 3 more pictures of the side of the coin. They don't show much, because the side is essentially clean. I know I'm biased because I really want this to be a mint error, but nobody in the PMD camp has given any explanation for how this could have happened. How would a coin look this clean and have sustained a hit severe and precise enough to move a part of the metal to another portion of the coin. Try hitting a Jefferson with a hammer. You'll find out pretty quick that an impact tough enough to do any real damage, does just that, damage...to much of the coin. It's just not plausable. How, then, could said moved piece be fused completely and elegantly to the field. What is this, extraterrestrial technology. Like I said before, and further supported by the pictures below, there is much more metal in the field than there is missing from the rim....that's what a defective abraded die could do.    Edited by hesgut
11/17/2011 10:01 pm
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Pillar of the Community
United States
5833 Posts |
Looking at the third picture, I believe a collar break caused the protrusion on the edge of the nickel.
That is just my opinion!
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Replies: 16 / Views: 3,063 |
Posted 11/15/2011 02:51 am
