Mexico 1737 8 Reales - Real?

t0rress Based on these two pictures alone - I have not got enough information to be certain that the coin is real or not. I suspect a forgery but can not prove it at this point.

The coin shows clear evidence of being edged POST strike which is a good thing. The design is also good with standard elements in normal places. There is evidence of the die being punched or a mold was made from a real punched die.

I agree that the coin looks too good to be true - nice strike no big gouges etc. This is a super "looking" coin.

I agree with Mathieu that the letters look "mushy" not as sharp as I might expect. However, that alone would not be enough to condemn the coin.

I would ask the seller for pictures of the edge as suggested by Mathieu and also ask for an EXACT weight of the coin.

At the same time ask about his return guarantee.

If the edge looks correct and he says he will accept a return - PROPOSE A DEAL. You agree to pay for certification by NGC or PCGS as long as the coin certifies as REAL. That way you will be SURE.

The 1736 is almost certainly a fake - and what happened to the 6 in the date? There are a few errors visible on this coin that are diagnostic of forgery. The most serious problem is one I prefer not to discuss because it is a detail that I have not seen published previously and may not be generally known to the forgers - BUT IT IS 100% conclusive in my estimation. This coin is a FAKE.


Having said that - I can now make a conclusive judgement about the 1737 shown earlier. I believe that the Shield side die used to make BOTH the 1736 and 1737 is IDENTICAL. To have that happen while technically not impossible it is certainly a SUPER rarity. But since one of the two coins is a FAKE - that leads to the absolute conclusion that the other one is also a FAKE.

I suspect that one host coin was used to make the image that created BOTH Shield dies. If these coins are pressure cast (as I now believe is the case): then it is possible if not a given, that the two shield impressions are different molds (which accounts for minor differences) because MOLDS used in this method are all made from a single transfer image. That is why on many of the high output fakes you can find what appear to be die varieties. One impression is used to make a dozen or more molds that are cast simultaneously. The result is 12 die (mold) varieties made from ONE master impression.

To establish this fact, compare the fine details - e.g. the Lion's tail in the lower left quadrant. The shape of the Fleur-de-lis especially the upper left side one. Note the blob at top center of the inner shield. How about the details of the Pomegranate - etc etc.

Viewed as a PAIR the 1736 and 1737 coins make me almost positive they are BOTH FAKE.

BTW, how much does the guy want for those ? (it's a often good diagnostic as well)

The above two pillar dollars are both modern counterfeit.
They are easily detected through their edges as shown in the above picture, no need to look at the obverse and reverse of the coin :-)

Well, you started with the most counterfeit spanish coins ... ;)
The price tells it all as well, cheap for a coin of this quality (if genuine), but expensive for a modern fake forgery (which should be not much more than 15 usd if made with low grade silver)

Before buying those, carefully read posts made here about forgeries, and learn on how to recognize them.
The edge is indeed a clear place to check (and usually the worse part on forgeries).

Oh, forgot something on this one ... the direction of the dentils :)

Larryh86GT : what you are saying about forgers already happened here - mods usually watch for this closely. But some may manage to get their coins checked ... that's why everything is not said (particularly from specialists like Swamperbob)

Yes Bob, at my age, I can still read a montblanc's serial nos with bare eyes and also maybe because of the nature of my work these past few decades in terms of forms, figures etc makes me easier to visualize any gray areas.
In this case about the edge's picture may it be a little blurred, I am really certain about my stand on the coin. Reason for this are my blunders and experiences in buying counterfeits in which all of their edges do have the same features as the above specimen.