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Annoying Buying Experience On Ebay/Bad Seller

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nolawyer's Avatar
United States
763 Posts
 Posted 12/04/2011  02:45 am Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add nolawyer to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
Yesterday I won an auction for a certified low grade coin for about $210. The greysheet Bid is $255 for this coin, but I have seen some certified examples in the same grade go for over $300 on ebay. I paid for the item this evening and got the following message from the seller about an hour later (bad grammar and all:)

"Hi Iam very sorry got some bad news today.That a few people dont like how I ship my items.I got a few 1 or 2 for shipping price.Now ebay want to hold my money.I would rather give your money back then have it held.I am very unhappy that they would not resolve my problem.I hate to get a nevative feedback on my record.But as I will not be selling on ebay any more you do what you must.if you would like to do some thing you could email ebay about bad "grading" rules."

The seller did issue a refund immediately after sending me the message. I am planning on leaving negative feedback for this seller, but I like to get other opinions before I do.

Do you think the seller is canceling the sale because of his issue with ebay or the low selling price? Either way, I think the seller should go through with the sale. If he has a problem with ebay, he should still honor his completed auctions.

What are your thoughts about this transaction?
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westcoin's Avatar
United States
9792 Posts
 Posted 12/04/2011  03:11 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add westcoin to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
That's a strange one, at least you got you money back.

A few weeks ago, I had a winner pay, then tell me to cancel within a few hours of his payment, he said "cancel my order and return my money - or I will just return it", since I had not shipped the coin, I returned his money. Then filled with ebay, they relisted it for free After listing it again I get a message from #2 high bidder asking me to offer him the 2nd chance choice on unpaid items. I declined since the auction was already restarted and there were already bids entered again, it ended unsold not reaching the reserve the second time, (and for less than #2 offered to buy it for, guess he didn't rebid), then ebay ends up charging me about $10.00 in fees - for something that never sold.

I think ebay is not protecting sellers very well, sellers pay the most fees to ebay not buyers. I was happy they implemented the Safety assurances they did for buyers, but what about the sellers?

In your case I would think the seller should be bound to sell you the coin, but on the bright side you didn't loose anything other than time and hope! How many feedbacks did he have, he sounds more naive than dishonest.
"Buy the Book Before You Buy the Coin" - Aaron R. Feldman - "And read it" - Me 2013!
ANA Life Member #3288 in good standing since 1981, ANS, Early American Coppers Member (EAC), Colonial Coin Collectors Club member (C4), Conder Token Collector Club member (CTCC), Civil War Token Society (CWTS) member, Liberty Seated Collectors Club (LSCC) & Numismatic Bibliomania Society member (NBS), USMex, Member in good standing, 2¢ variety collector.

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Edited by westcoin
12/04/2011 03:18 am
Bedrock of the Community
United States
10284 Posts
 Posted 12/04/2011  09:56 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add TNG to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
A neutral feedback would be right, the seller has a responsibility to know ebay and paypal policies have changed. It suits ebay to have a comment in the feedback about payment being withheld on the seller as it does discourage selling. The seller may have remorse for selling it at a lower than market price and then on top of that getting whacked with final value fees and paypal fees. I don't blame him and I don't blame you for being disappointed but you lost nothing but time, he could have lost a lot of money and ebay lost the fees.
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biggfredd's Avatar
United States
9104 Posts
 Posted 12/04/2011  10:38 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add biggfredd to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Do you think the seller is canceling the sale because of his issue with ebay or the low selling price?


Doesn't matter "why". You're high bid, you paid, he's obligated to deliver. Doubtful ebay will do much, and even if they NARU him, he apparently doesn't care.
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nolawyer's Avatar
United States
763 Posts
 Posted 12/04/2011  11:10 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add nolawyer to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I'm not exactly sure what ebay did to the seller as the message I got from the seller is not that clear. At the time he sent the message to me, his feedback was all positive with one neutral; however, his star rating for shipping and handling charges was 4.3 out of 5. It doesn't look like the seller had enough transactions to qualify for a seller's discount, so I don't think his fees were increased. From his message, it sounds like ebay put a hold on his funds for a certain period of time before allowing him access to it. Does anyone know if ebay does that?
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biggfredd's Avatar
United States
9104 Posts
 Posted 12/04/2011  11:34 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add biggfredd to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
ebaY/payenemy will hold funds for new sellers or if there's a sudden jump in a seller's business, or sometimes randomly. They hold for 21 days or until there is positive FB left.
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Yokozuna's Avatar
United States
4618 Posts
 Posted 12/04/2011  12:16 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Yokozuna to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I had the "21 Day Hold" from PayPal, but the longest I had to wait for my funds was 6 days. All you need to do, as the seller, is send the item the as soon as you can and make sure that the tracking info is entered on ebay or PayPal. The payment is released 3 days after the delivery date. If the buyer gives you good feedback they release the funds immediately.

I started selling more coins for much higher prices so they put my payments on hold. They review the hold every 35 days and as long as you're shipping quickly and don't have any problems with returns or bad feedback, they remove the hold.

I was upset when they placed the hold on my payments, but I would never refuse to send someone an item that they had paid for.

I did start telling my buyers about the hold and asked that they leave feedback as soon as they got the item. Everyone I sold to was happy to help and I only had on person that didn't leave feedback, and never did. That was the only time I had to wait 6 days for the funds to be released.

I also called PayPal once as soon as the coins delivered and asked if they could check why the payment was still on hold. They said they found the "problem", and released the funds without waiting three more days.

The seller could have asked you to leave feedback and had his money in just a few days. He either didn't understand this or thought twice about the price you paid. I would leave bad feedback for him because of the way he handled things. That will also keep his "21 Day Hold" in place.

PayPal sent me an email this week saying that the hold on my payments had been released.
ANA ID: 3203813 - CONECA ID: N-5637 Clean a coin that may be worth collecting? Please DON'T! When in doubt, leave it dirty!!
Annoying-Buying-Experience-On-Ebay/Bad-Seller


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hesgut's Avatar
1028 Posts
 Posted 12/04/2011  1:58 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add hesgut to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
You could leave negative if you want, I would personally probably leave neutral. It sounds like the seller is leaving ebay so it won't really matter.

If the seller wants his fees back on your item, he has to get your approval. Filing a transaction cancel asks will ask you if you approve. If you say no, then the seller pays fees for the item...in this case like $20. I'd probably say no.

I will say that the whole 21-day hold period can get sellers to want to do dramatic things. The system that places holds after the initial 3 months has glitches and doesn't work correctly...a rep has even told me that it doesn't work right. I had an account in perfect standing and I sold several items on a specific day. Some, but not even all, of the items just had a hold placed on them. I called and a different ebay rep said "we don't don't why" and "I can't take it off though." I almost wanted to just pull all my listings and never come back, so I have a tiny bit of sympathy with this seller...the hold period thing is a wrong policy, especially if it hasn't been coded correctly by their software engineers. If a seller is suspected of fraud, just get rid of him, don't mess around with holds.

On another note of ebay messing everything up. I haven't paid my last invoice's fees. ebay reps "guaranteed" me that their system shows it has been successfully charged to paypal. Then paypal reps "guaranteed" me that no such transaction ever happened and that it would certainly have showed by now.
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cwb1877's Avatar
United States
1659 Posts
 Posted 12/04/2011  2:18 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add cwb1877 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I know your frustration. I've had this happen to me a few times. At least you got a refund right away so they didn't tie up your money for a significant length of time.

One of the most irritating experiences I had was a seller that did this to me on a $500 transaction. I got a refund, but only after 11 days when I inquired about when they shipped the item. Since the seller tied up such a significant amount of money for such a lengthy amount of time, which I certainly could have used for other things, I left a negative.

The other times I've had this happen, the refund was a lot more prompt so I didn't leave any feedback even though maybe I should have.

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NicO's Avatar
United States
136 Posts
 Posted 12/06/2011  11:08 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add NicO to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Unfortunately, this is something that a lot of sellers seem to do, from my experience. A lot of sellers like to experiment with "loss leaders", meaning they start items at $0.01 or another low starting bid to attract bidders to that listing, and in turn, to their store where other, more expensive items are listed. The whole objective is to a lose a little, to gain a lot on other listings.

Loss leaders sometimes workout extremely effectively, creating a lot of attention around the listing and driving the price way beyond what you'd ever imagine receiving, and sometimes it's a flop and you'll end up losing. Either way, it's simply a poor seller practice to not acknowledge a sale if you simply didn't get the price you wanted, as a seller should be fully aware of the risks with "loss leaders." It seems to me that he possibly didn't get what he wanted, and in turn, wants it back for a second chance, which is quite silly on his part.
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steve - Oz 50c man's Avatar
Australia
490 Posts
 Posted 12/06/2011  11:29 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add steve - Oz 50c man to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Luckily I have not had this happen to me, however to me sounds like he is dodgy and I think you are lucky yo get out of the transaction. Imagine pushing to get the coin only to receive it and it not being what you had hoped!
My only similar experience was with a fine silver year set here in Australia where seller had not packaged it appropriately and it got damaged in transit. He initially refused to take it back blaming the post office / courier even after me sending photos of how it was packed. In the end I finally got my money back, but after a lot of time and angst. I made sure that on return I showed him what good packaging was, must have taken him ages to unpack it ;-) but at least it was safe and you could eaisly tell that there could have been no damage it transit simply by how it was packed.
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nolawyer's Avatar
United States
763 Posts
 Posted 12/06/2011  11:31 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add nolawyer to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I decided to contact the seller and ask to explain his position more clearly. He stated that he was not happy with ebay for putting a 21 day hold on his funds. He offered to sell the coin directly to me via a Paypal invoice for the amount of the ebay auction. I have soured on the deal at this point so I am not going to buy it, but I've decided not to leave any feedback for him.

Thanks for all of your input!
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hesgut's Avatar
1028 Posts
 Posted 12/06/2011  2:58 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add hesgut to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Since he's offering to sell the coin outside of ebay, he's the one breaking their rules, but it sounds like he's leaving them anyways.

You should have told him that, because of the current trust issues and the lack of ebay buyer protection for such a sale, you would only pay him after you receive the coin. You could also have asked for a lower price which he may have accepted as he no longer would have to pay ebay fees. He might go for such a deal to avoid his 21-day hold.
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biggfredd's Avatar
United States
9104 Posts
 Posted 12/07/2011  12:27 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add biggfredd to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
A lot of sellers like to experiment with "loss leaders", meaning they start items at $0.01 or another low starting bid to attract bidders to that listing, and in turn, to their store where other, more expensive items are listed. The whole objective is to a lose a little, to gain a lot on other listings.

We start items at 1¢ no reserve when we know they will bring enough to justify listing. It saves on insertion fees.

Many sellers don't realize if they start an item at 1¢ and put a $500 reserve on it, the insertion fee is based on the higher number, plus if no one meets the reserve, they also pay the reserve fee. If you're not willing to take less than $500, make that your minimum and quit wasting everyone's time. At least you save the reserve fee if no one bids.
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