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1992 And 1984 Lincoln Memorial Cent Doublings

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New Member

United States
27 Posts
 Posted 01/04/2007  10:20 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add jim in wmass to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
Hi, I'm a new guys here and this is my first post.

I stopped at the bank a couple days ago and picked up $6 worth of rolled Lincoln cents.

#1 While going through a roll I came across a 1984 of some variety. One might think it to be the double ear type. But here it is different. Notable doubling can be seen as the outline at the back of the head running along in the field area; going down to the very base at the back of the coat collar. Doubling seen on TY in LIBERTY. At the part of the tie sticking out into the field below it's tip looks to be a double strike of that tie tip. There is doubling at the ear, seen on the back side of the lobe, but not so pronounced.. Couldn't get the right light to reflect that.

#2 Is a cent I came across about 8 years ago while going through some rolls.

I would suppose this might be an example of Offset Hub Doubling on a 1992 Lincoln Cent, though I'm no expert on the divisions. I call it my Frankencent because of the double impression seen as what looks like crack on the forehead but isn't. Doubling seen over the round at the tip of the nose to the nostril, doubling around and on the underside of the beard, doubling of the adams apple, doubling of the tie seen extending into the field. I haven't heard of anything that faintly resembles this on any 1992 Lincoln Cent.

Any help insight on these two circulated pieces would be greatly appreciated.

1992-And-1984-Lincoln-Memorial-Cent-Doublings 1992-And-1984-Lincoln-Memorial-Cent-Doublings
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scoutjim99's Avatar
United States
4589 Posts
 Posted 01/04/2007  11:52 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add scoutjim99 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I may be wrong but all of the examples of the double ear were actually placed further down the neck is this correct ( I mean actuall seperation from the first strike and the next strike of the ear. which has always confused me because I cant see that as possiable . These pictures I saw were in reputable dealers circulars or flyers and or articles.
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United States
27 Posts
 Posted 01/05/2007  12:56 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jim in wmass to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The images you speak of are basically the same as what one would see in the Red Book too. That is why I dont know what I have here. Certainly not the double lobe type. Maybe a type 2 here? I have never seen nor heard of another doubling like the one on my 84. As far as the 92 to goes, I've never hesard of that one either. Not even a hint of one being out there.
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scoutjim99's Avatar
United States
4589 Posts
 Posted 01/05/2007  01:32 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add scoutjim99 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Hang out there are many error collectors here including a "Lincoln Error' Author of a book who can surely shed some more light on this topic, it may take a day or two.
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Metalman's Avatar
United States
7123 Posts
 Posted 01/05/2007  02:19 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Metalman to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Hi jim in wmass


Your right it is not the one listed in the RedBook or breens,, the doubling at the back of the Head looks like Mechanical Doubling,, I could be wrong, but that is what it looks like to me,, as for the ear lobe the pic is not sharp enough for me to make out any real detail .

Like Jim said there is a well known expert on Lincoln Cent varieties that pops in now and then,, hang in there .

Sorry I cant help with the 92 something I have not seen before .

Here is a site that may help ,,http://koinpro.tripod.com/Articles/...Doubling.htm

Rick
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United States
27 Posts
 Posted 01/05/2007  03:36 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jim in wmass to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks Rick for your input and the neat link> I have it bookmarked now.

Also I miss lable 1992 cent on the image itself. It is not a 1982 and is a 92. The thought of finding this website and eager to show must of sidelined my thoughts when I did that.
Valued Member
United States
380 Posts
 Posted 01/06/2007  08:16 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add errorfinder to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
jm in wmass , first welcome aboard glad you have found this site. this forum is great IMHO.i'am no expert in the error and/or variety field but the last three years it's been my main focus to learn more N more about these 'off' coins.the coin book author;"searching through lincoln cents"; that visits here (at least the one I think has been referred to) is charles(chuck) daughtrey. he is indeed an expert when is comes to die varieties. in fact he has a web site that is huge and growing as time goes by.he does stop by on occasion .. in the interum.this what i'am aware of; 1984 was the year for the ear lobe being doubled (south of the earlobe) also I believe it showed up on the east side of 984 of the date.the 5 1984's I checked; to refresh my memory, all showed the same as your coin I believe it's from the die being worn by use or polishing by a mint employee or both (referred to as deteriorated die .the dot under the bow tie could be a gas bubble.the TY I can't see (my eyes are tired)the back of the head looks like the copper plate lifted slightly during striking giving what I call a "ghost" image. of course I could be all "off course" on this ,, so just take it as my opinion (based on the last three years lernin and searching APX. 600,000 CeNtS.. oh before I forget see book authors web site at [url]www.coppercoins.com[\url] .note upper Left hand corner for the die variety search (just type in ad date or range of dates to see many pics with descriptions ect.the forum there is a scroll pop up under "interactive" just roll your cursor over it(interactive)and forum will appear.sorry if info; is off , little tired here yet. Happy Hunting and looking foward to future ... "to err is human to forgive is devine".
Edited by errorfinder
01/08/2007 9:13 pm
New Member
United States
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 Posted 01/06/2007  9:40 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jim in wmass to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Hi Errorfinder,

Thank you for your input and site links too.

Judging from what I've come across just these past couple weeks must mean you've come across some pretty nice goodies. I'm only at about 15,000 that I've picked through. I did find a mechanically damages planchet of a 2005 Lincoln Cent yesterday, and a 3 clogged coins of more recent issues. Will be showing those later. Don't want to hog the forum.

Tonight I dropped down to a 25 watt soft white that resulted with this image. It clearly shows after a billion snaps the doubling behind the lobe as oppose to the the original image I posted. Hope this is more clear for you folks. Just remember my focus is more on the lobe.


I visited Ken Potter's website tonight looking into what he had for books. He has listed below one of his books " A Quick Reference to the Top Lincoln Cent Die Varieties " some nice pictures of a 1984 Double Obv.. But what I find most peculiar about one of those images is the tie; a dot, air bubble or doubling in the same exact location as the one seen on mine. On his the lump looks larger but still in the same location.

1992-And-1984-Lincoln-Memorial-Cent-Doublings
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Metalman's Avatar
United States
7123 Posts
 Posted 01/07/2007  12:05 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Metalman to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Jim

I gotta tell ya , it all looks like mechanical to me , I can see the little bit on the Y also all going the same direction.

I know Errorcoins has pointed towards deterioration doubling but I dont see that on the lettering that is visable at least in the pics.

Now I'm guessing to a degree here !! but I have seen this type of doubling on other coins that was attributed as Mechanical.

By the way ,, I have the rest of your frankenstein Cent,, I have Lincoln with the bolt in the neck !!

Rick
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United States
27 Posts
 Posted 01/07/2007  12:25 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jim in wmass to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I might have to agree with guys now, and I can tell you why. After posting this last picture, I went back to it in my folder. I see a crack in the coin which might thrown the stampimg off. This can be seen starting at the ear lobe, going down through the cheekbone and down through the coat. Never saw that before. What do I do? Put it back in circulation?
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Metalman's Avatar
United States
7123 Posts
 Posted 01/07/2007  12:54 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Metalman to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I usually hang onto just about all of the coins that I find that have anomolies,, they make a good reference for other coins, and who knows from photo's its always possible that the opinions were wrong.

I would keep it for the die crack alone,, but then I think die cracks are cool !!



Rick
Edited by Metalman
01/07/2007 03:13 am
Valued Member
United States
380 Posts
 Posted 01/07/2007  02:53 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add errorfinder to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
hey , hey hey . awake again or least more so than last post.first thank-you, out to metalman , I admit that the deterioration applies to the ear lobe; and not the "TY" letters. sorry 'bout that, should have could have ,would have ...been more specific.jim n wmass seeing your new pic and reviewing your first two (pics); i' think i'am seeing doubling on both ear lobes. saying this to mention; compare , compare ,look at other 1984 cents for the 'extra' earlobe 'bulge'.even 1992's and other dates. well the bow tie dot is interesting ,as you pointed out the same location of the "correct DDO doubled die obverse. yet another mistake on part was the corner of the die variety search on coppercoins.web site. I should have stated ' it is located on the upper left hand side of the home page'. pobodys nerfect :-).82-84 are 'full of gas bubbles thats why I leaned in that direction.as far as keeping it "i would" first it has a obverse die crack 'scarcer than reverse die cracks in my experience so-far.secondly 'cause till I was 'sure what it is; i'd file it, in the "later" box , till I learned more; essentially .the 84's mechanical or Machine Doubling is based on not only the "flatness" of the doubled devices,but also on the 'width' of the doubling; as, being as wide as the DLBling is; one would except to see it, continued into " ER" as well. kinda hard for me to word clearly...you will be seeing more of the "ghosting" ie. coppper clad slightly lifting; close to devices, as you go through more coins.man I remember my first 1969 S MDD ,, well I thought I was 'rich' to say the least. live N learn : no added 'premium '. value as: stated on reverse of coin "ONE CENT".your 1992 very late MDD , no added value =one cent.the 1992 should be checked for a reverse a close 'AM' wide 'A M 'is what they are supposed to be; in/of AMERICA : super rare; yet they are out there , yes from philly the first ones were found comming from denver's mint. * note * 1997 has some "ear lobe " DDO's too. (Doubled Die Obverse)lastly 1998-2000 contain TYPE II (proof)reveres as well ['wide "A M "]
Edited by errorfinder
01/08/2007 9:09 pm
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United States
27 Posts
 Posted 01/07/2007  11:44 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jim in wmass to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Hello errorfinder,

Wow! That's a lot to remember but.... I think you may have solved the mystery of my 1992 Frankencent

You mentioned and I quote: " the 1992 should be checked for a reverse 'wide 'A M '; in/of AMERICA : super rare "

Gee I don't know but I think thats what I have. Certainly has the Wide field between the A and the M. The letters are not touching each other.

Is this the one?

1992-And-1984-Lincoln-Memorial-Cent-Doublings

If so is there a scarcity scale from 1 being common to 8 the rarest of levels? This way I might know if I have a gold mine or not.

This thing has traveled a bit since it had to be in circulation for roughly 5 years or so before I pulled it. But still it's got lots of luster, and not all beat up either.
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Metalman's Avatar
United States
7123 Posts
 Posted 01/08/2007  04:23 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Metalman to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
the 92 should be checked for a Close AM the Wide AM applies after 1993 to date.

all of the Lincolns had a Wide AM up until 1993 when the reverse was changed and the AM was made slightly closer together practically touching,, the proof coins up until 1992 had the Close AM reverse,,in 1993 basically what they did was reverse the reverse dies,, proof reverses became Business reverses and business reverse became proof reverses.

some of the Business strike cents of 1992 were accidently struck using the proof reverse dies( Close AM pre 1993) and then again in 1998 some of the business strike cents were accidently struck using a proof reverse ( Wide AM post 1993) the Wide AM cents this accident ? happened a few time between 1998 and 2000.

Hope this helps ,, your coin is a normal reverse for 1992. afraid you cant retire.

Rick



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United States
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 Posted 01/08/2007  6:53 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jim in wmass to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks Metalman, it was sworth a try.

Couldn't get that search engine to work for me at coppercoins web site errorfinder recommended. I tried everything, and it kept telling me I had to select something.

But hey, I'll be posting something new later on tonight. If I don't get anything positive on that, I will still have fun showing them.

Valued Member
United States
380 Posts
 Posted 01/08/2007  9:36 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add errorfinder to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
first thankyou Metalman, I'm human what else is there to say, oh yeah Sorry for the mistake jim in wmass.I've edited my posts . thanks again metalman.fingers slower than :thoughts . "the faster I go , the farther behind I get".jim the coppercoins.com search feature ' the fields for search only need a date: example the first blank field enter in____1992 hit enter on your key board ..and it will show all results for that date..the second field you could enter in 1993 for exaple (after first feild has 1992)and the results would = 1992-1993 the other feild are labled and would narrow down the results for the date (or dates)you've enered such as ;mint(mark)RPM.Doubled dies ect. hopes this helps.the site has thousands of pictures, thus the searches need to be specific.. .note upper Left hand corner for the die variety search "(just type in a date or range of dates to see many pics with descriptions ect.*) .note upper Left hand corner for the die variety search.
Edited by errorfinder
01/09/2007 12:22 am
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