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Help With A Gift Claudius II 270Ad Consecratio

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amassey08873's Avatar
United States
584 Posts
 Posted 12/14/2011  06:37 am Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add amassey08873 to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
Hello I'm new to this wonderful world of Ancient G & are Coins.
I picked up a gift off ebay. And wanted to know what you guys thought of it. The person its going to collects Ancient G & are Coins as well. It seems legit. The history on the pc is pretty impressive. The coin was originally $125, then slashed to $70, and after letting the seller know what it was for, he gave me an even better price. Here's a link to the listing. If this is offical, I can't thank this seller enough! http://www.ebay.com/itm/32072817914...t_2875wt_952

Help-With-A-Gift--Claudius-II-270Ad-Consecratio

Help-With-A-Gift--Claudius-II-270Ad-Consecratio


Authentic Ancient Coin of:
Claudius II - Roman Emperor: 268-270 A.D.
Bronze Antoninianus 20mm (2.13 grams) Rome mint: circa 270 A.D.
Reference: RIC 259 Antoninianus
DIVOCLAVDIO - Radiate head right.
CONSACRATIO - Lit altar.

You are bidding on the exact item pictured, provided with a Certificate of Authenticity and Lifetime Guarantee of Authenticity.

Marcus Aurelius Claudius (May 10, 213 - January, 270), often referred to as Claudius Gothicus or Claudius II, was a Roman Emperor. He ruled the Roman Empire for less than two years (268 - 270), but during that brief time he managed to obtain some successes. He was later given divine status.

Life

Origin and rise to power

Claudius' origin is uncertain. He was either from Sirmium (Syrmia; in Pannonia Inferior) or from Naissus Dardania (in Moesia Superior); both areas are located in Serbia.

Claudius was the commander of the Roman army that decisively defeated the Goths at the Battle of Naissus in September 268; in the same month, he attained the throne, amid charges, never proven, that he murdered his predecessor Gallienus. However, he soon proved to be less than bloodthirsty, as he asked the Roman Senate to spare the lives of Gallienus' family and supporters. He was less magnanimous toward Rome's enemies, however, and it was to this that he owed his popularity.

Claudius, like Maximinus Thrax before him, was of barbarian birth. After an interlude of failed aristocratic Roman emperors since Maximinus's death, Claudius was the first in a series of tough soldier-emperors who would eventually restore the Empire from the Crisis of the third century.

Claudius as emperor

At the time of his accession, the Roman Empire was in serious danger from several incursions, both within and outside its borders. The most pressing of these was an invasion of Illyricum and Pannonia by the Goths. Not long after being named emperor (or just prior to Gallienus' death, depending on the source), he won his greatest victory, and one of the greatest in the history of Roman arms.



The Roman Empire in 268 A.D

At the Battle of Naissus, Claudius and his legions routed a huge Gothic army. Together with his cavalry commander, the future Emperor Aurelian, the Romans took thousands of prisoners, destroyed the Gothic cavalry as a force and stormed their laager (a circular alignment of wagons long favored by the Goths). The victory earned Claudius his surname of "Gothicus" (conqueror of the Goths), and that is how he is known to this day. More importantly, the Goths were soon driven back across the Danube River, and a century passed before they again posed a serious threat to the empire.

While this was going on, the Germanic tribe known as the Alamanni had crossed the Alps and attacked the empire. Claudius responded quickly, routing the Alamanni at the Battle of Lake Benacus in the late fall of 268, a few months after the battle of Naissus. He then turned on the Gallic Empire, ruled by a pretender for the past fifteen years and encompassing Britain, Gaul, and the Iberian Peninsula. He won several victories and soon regained control of Spain and the Rhone river valley of Gaul. This set the stage for the ultimate destruction of the Gallic Empire under Aurelian.

However, Claudius did not live long enough to fulfill his goal of reuniting all the lost territories of the empire. Late in 269 he was preparing to go to war against the Vandals, who were raiding in Pannonia. However, he fell victim to the Plague of Cyprian (possibly smallpox), and died early in January 270. Before his death, he is thought to have named Aurelian as his successor, although Claudius' brother Quintillus briefly seized power.

The Senate immediately deified Claudius as "Divus Claudius Gothicus".

Links to Constantinian dynasty

The Historia Augusta reports Claudius and Quintillus having another brother named Crispus and through him a niece. Said niece Claudia reportedly married Eutropius and was mother to Constantius Chlorus. Historians however suspect this account to be a genealogical fabrication intended to link Constantine I's family to that of a well-respected emperor.
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bobbyhelmet's Avatar
United Kingdom
2838 Posts
 Posted 12/14/2011  07:43 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add bobbyhelmet to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Hello, I'm sure your friend will be happy with this as a present. Firstly, this coin is authentic so you don't have to worry on that front - it also has quite a nice portrait. More often than not these Claudius II coins survive in very poor quality.

The seller has got quite a few of the details wrong though, I'll go through them now.

'Claudius II - Roman Emperor: 268-270 A.D.' - Correct.
'Bronze Antoninianus 20mm (2.13 grams) Rome mint: circa 270 A.D.' - I cant comment on the size and weight but your coin was not minted in Rome, it was minted in Milan. Bronze / Billon Antoninianus is fine for the description, 270AD date is about right.
'Reference: RIC 259 Antoninianus' - This ref is incorrect, your coin is RIC V-1 261 Milan.
'DIVOCLAVDIO - Radiate head right.' - Correct.
'CONSACRATIO - Lit altar.' - Incorrect, the reverse legend is 'CONSECRATIO'. A fuller description would be 'Altar with flames above, front divided into four sections with a dot in each section'.

This seller usually gets his historical context from Wikipedia (cut and paste) so I would assume its correct.

Unfortunately with the number of mistakes above the sellers 'Certificate of Authenticity and Lifetime Guarantee of Authenticity' will not match the coin you receive!

Price-wise you probably paid a bit too much but $30 is a lot better than $125! $125 is a disgrace and is bordering on robbery and probably 1000% the coins real value. On ebay I would expect to see this coin for sale in a Buy it Now for $10-$15, it would probably sell for a little less in an auction.

I'm sorry if this isn't what you wanted to hear but at least you know now. $30 is high for this but not exorbitant, had you paid $70 or $125 you would have been robbed.

I'm aware of the seller and know he sells in high volumes but his IDs are often incorrect and his descriptions are usually cut and paste via Wiki. He often hugely over-prices his coins and then offers big discounts to attract people who are not 'in the know', maybe he should change his name to Highrating Highprice!
Edited by bobbyhelmet
12/14/2011 07:45 am
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amassey08873's Avatar
United States
584 Posts
 Posted 12/14/2011  08:19 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add amassey08873 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks so much Bobbyhelmet! I was afraid this might happen. This was a gift for the Secret Santa here on CCF so I'm a very disappointed. I really wanted to wow my recipient. I even went $10 over budget to get it. This is a huge let down. I thank you so much for the help.
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Bing's Avatar
United States
4253 Posts
 Posted 12/14/2011  08:38 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Bing to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
First I wanted to welcome you. This is a great hobby, so stick around. You will come to enjoy it (or get addicted as I have).

Bobbyhelmet is correct in everything he has told you. I stay away from this particular seller. His prices are fantasy. There is no rhyme or reason for the prices he chooses for the coins he sells. Bobbyhelmet is most probably correct too when he says this seller moves his wares to unsuspecting and/or unknowing buyers.

Your coin is a fair coin, but IMHO not worth the price you paid. It is a common enough coin and should not command such high prices. I am attaching a picture of a coin I have of the same emperor, Claudius II, that I recently purchased for under $20 including shipping. It's not the same coin, so really the only comparison I am making is the price to condition.

One last comment. I think it's great to have new people interested in this area of numismatics, and I highly encourage newcomers (as can be attested from other posts). Please don't let this experience sour you on the hobby. Come back to this discussion board often and you will learn all the ropes required. I have been collecting for a while now and I still learn something new most everyday.

Help-With-A-Gift--Claudius-II-270Ad-Consecratio

Help-With-A-Gift--Claudius-II-270Ad-Consecratio
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Bing's Avatar
United States
4253 Posts
 Posted 12/14/2011  08:48 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Bing to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I just checked on acsearch for a like coin as yours. There are several on there that are better quality and the prices show it too. However, here is a link to one in similiar condition that is selling for $11: http://www.acsearch.info/record.html?id=230511

Like bobbyhelmet, I'm sorry to have to tell you this, but I'm sure you would prefer the truth. You didn't get robbed, but you did pay too much IMO.
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VisigothKing's Avatar
United States
4778 Posts
 Posted 12/14/2011  09:05 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add VisigothKing to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
IMO I also think you paid a little too much for it, but to be fair, it is the holidays so it's normal for people to accidently overpay for stuff they buy.
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Gil-galad's Avatar
United States
2044 Posts
 Posted 12/14/2011  09:56 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Gil-galad to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Here is a Claudius Gothicus II that I paid $12 for. I've also seen more around that price.

Help-With-A-Gift--Claudius-II-270Ad-Consecratio
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Archraz's Avatar
United States
3499 Posts
 Posted 12/14/2011  11:22 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Archraz to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I paid about $12 for this one back in 2008. I actually just bought it from a shop of a trustworthy dealer.

Help-With-A-Gift--Claudius-II-270Ad-Consecratio

Help-With-A-Gift--Claudius-II-270Ad-Consecratio
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DVCollector's Avatar
United States
10045 Posts
 Posted 12/14/2011  11:44 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add DVCollector to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Jwharper, you could be a buyer for other collectors--you always find great coins for good prices!


I just know I enjoy any ancient coin as a gift, no matter the price...
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Bing's Avatar
United States
4253 Posts
 Posted 12/14/2011  1:17 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Bing to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Jwharper, you could be a buyer for other collectors--you always find great coins for good prices!


I'm just "frugal" so I hunt for the good deals. It's like a contest to see if I can get a better deal than the last one. As it is, I'm beginning to accumulate duplicates and coins I don't need for my collection strategies, so I will be slowly selling off some of these "great coins" in the near future. Like I told Gil-galad, I'm not in this to be a dealer. I'm a collector, so any coins I sell will not be for profit, but rather I will sell them at the price I purchased them plus the shipping I paid (if I have it annotated. My earlier coins I neglected to keep records of shipping costs).

I haven't made up my mind just yet which coins I will be selling, but when I do, I'll let everyone know.
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VisigothKing's Avatar
United States
4778 Posts
 Posted 12/14/2011  1:26 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add VisigothKing to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
When you do, are you going to sell them on here?
Edited by VisigothKing
12/14/2011 1:27 pm
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Bing's Avatar
United States
4253 Posts
 Posted 12/14/2011  2:00 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Bing to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
When you do, are you going to sell them on here?


Yes, but I need to find out what the rules are. I know I can list them on the CCF coin auction, but, again, I'm not a dealer, and not sure I want to get into auctioning off coins. I need to figure it out first. I have sold a few coins off line to Gil-galad, but there will be more coming I assure you. As you can tell from my many posts, I'm constantly buying, so my collection is getting out of control. But, hey, what's a guy to do when he sees a great deal? Right? RIGHT?
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Gil-galad's Avatar
United States
2044 Posts
 Posted 12/14/2011  2:21 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Gil-galad to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
RIGHT ON! Gotta get those good deals!

Nothing like coin hunting!
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VisigothKing's Avatar
United States
4778 Posts
 Posted 12/14/2011  2:40 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add VisigothKing to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Right! But I've been buying alot recently so I'm trying to lay off for a while
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United States
1549 Posts
 Posted 12/14/2011  9:51 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add dougsmit to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
While I agree the coin was overpriced and $10 would be plenty, it does seem wrong to compare it to regular Claudius II coins which are more easily found with legends than these consecration issues. It is a common coin but has just a little more interest as a death commemorative.
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jessvc1's Avatar
United States
2596 Posts
 Posted 12/15/2011  3:00 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jessvc1 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I agree you really have to look around, I bought this one for under $2

Help-With-A-Gift--Claudius-II-270Ad-Consecratio

Help-With-A-Gift--Claudius-II-270Ad-Consecratio
Edited by jessvc1
12/15/2011 3:03 pm
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