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Chemistry Questions For Bad Thad

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RogerRamjet's Avatar
United States
172 Posts
 Posted 12/14/2011  12:23 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add RogerRamjet to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
Bad Thad, first of all, I'd like to thank you for your many insightful posts about coin chemistry and for developing VERDI-CARE. From the many posted pictures, VERDI-CARE is obviously a very effective product that helps conserve coins in a way that wasn't previously possible. I've got a handful of related questions...

1. You've posted quotes from a book you were writing about verdigris. Did you ever publish it? If so, where can it be obtained?

2. I've seen you recommend using water, acetone, and xylene, in that polarity order, as solvents for removing foreign matter and organic materials. Do you have an opinion about using Koinsolv as an alternative? Wizard says it "works better than acetone, alcohol, and other solvents". Its MSDS says it contains "propyl bromide, propanol, epoxybutane, oxygenated hydrocarbons".

3. I'm 99% sold on using VERDI-CARE but the one thing that has held me back is that I haven't been able to determine it's chemical composition. Like many numismatists, I'm a tad anal-retentive, so I have a personal policy about knowing what chemicals contact my coins. I thought the MSDS would tell me but it didn't. Is the composition a proprietary secret? If so, I'll be frustrated but I'll understand.

4. The VERDI-CARE instructions say that "rinsing with water or other solvents after treatment is NOT needed or recommended". Other than more reflective surfaces, what are the benefits of leaving the surface conditioner on the coin? Have you considered selling ReAcT2 separately for folks who might be inclined to rinse off the surface conditioner in VERDI-CARE?

5. You've said that ReAcT2 is used by the U.S. mint. I was curious to learn more about how they use it. Do they use it to prepare planchets or as a final treatment after coins are struck? Do they use it for all alloys? Do they use it for proofs only?

Thanks again for all you've done to preserve our treasures and thanks in advance for your responses.
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okiepb's Avatar
United States
1213 Posts
 Posted 12/14/2011  7:39 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add okiepb to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Great questions, Roger!
I've subscribed to this post in anticipation of Thad's response.

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westcoin's Avatar
United States
9792 Posts
 Posted 12/14/2011  9:49 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add westcoin to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Me too! I'm awaiting a bottle of Verdi-Care myself.
"Buy the Book Before You Buy the Coin" - Aaron R. Feldman - "And read it" - Me 2013!
ANA Life Member #3288 in good standing since 1981, ANS, Early American Coppers Member (EAC), Colonial Coin Collectors Club member (C4), Conder Token Collector Club member (CTCC), Civil War Token Society (CWTS) member, Liberty Seated Collectors Club (LSCC) & Numismatic Bibliomania Society member (NBS), USMex, Member in good standing, 2¢ variety collector.

See my want page: http://goccf.com/t/140440
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SsuperDdave's Avatar
United States
23522 Posts
 Posted 12/15/2011  12:08 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SsuperDdave to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Just don't expect Thad to divulge a proprietary formula.
Valued Member
RogerRamjet's Avatar
United States
172 Posts
 Posted 12/15/2011  12:08 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add RogerRamjet to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Just don't expect Thad to divulge a proprietary formula.

No, of course not. But if the composition is proprietary, I expect him to state that clearly. I respect the fact that proprietary secrets help engineers profit from technology they develop by minimizing competition. Nothing wrong with that, even if I would prefer to know what's in it.
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BadThad's Avatar
United States
19948 Posts
 Posted 12/15/2011  7:32 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add BadThad to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
1. You've posted quotes from a book you were writing about verdigris. Did you ever publish it? If so, where can it be obtained?


No, I was laid-off much of 2009 so I had time to work on the book. Eventually, I'll get motivated to finish it off as it's like 90% done.


Quote:
2. I've seen you recommend using water, acetone, and xylene, in that polarity order, as solvents for removing foreign matter and organic materials. Do you have an opinion about using Koinsolv as an alternative? Wizard says it "works better than acetone, alcohol, and other solvents". Its MSDS says it contains "propyl bromide, propanol, epoxybutane, oxygenated hydrocarbons".


I've seen the advertisements for Koinsolv, however, I've never personally tried it.



Quote:
3. I'm 99% sold on using VERDI-CARE but the one thing that has held me back is that I haven't been able to determine it's chemical composition. Like many numismatists, I'm a tad anal-retentive, so I have a personal policy about knowing what chemicals contact my coins. I thought the MSDS would tell me but it didn't. Is the composition a proprietary secret? If so, I'll be frustrated but I'll understand.


The ingredients are proprietary. Sorry, you'll have to remain frustrated. However, be aware that I originally developed the product mainly for my own personal use because verdigris is a major problem for us copper lovers. I now have test coins that are going on 2 years old that were conserved with VC and they look the exact same today.


Quote:
4. The VERDI-CARE instructions say that "rinsing with water or other solvents after treatment is NOT needed or recommended". Other than more reflective surfaces, what are the benefits of leaving the surface conditioner on the coin? Have you considered selling ReAcT2 separately for folks who might be inclined to rinse off the surface conditioner in VERDI-CARE?


The benefits are protection from atmospheric gunk. ReAcT2 is not and will never be sold separately. A light rinse will not fully remove it and the protective benefits of ReAcT2 will remain.


Quote:
5. You've said that ReAcT2 is used by the U.S. mint. I was curious to learn more about how they use it. Do they use it to prepare planchets or as a final treatment after coins are struck? Do they use it for all alloys? Do they use it for proofs only?


The mint uses the ingredient post-production to halt browning, oxidating and corrosion. I have no idea what other coins they may be using it on now.

I hope this helps!
Lincoln Cent Lover!
VERDI-CARE™ INVENTOR
https://verdi.care/
Edited by BadThad
12/15/2011 7:32 pm
Valued Member
RogerRamjet's Avatar
United States
172 Posts
 Posted 12/16/2011  11:46 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add RogerRamjet to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
No, I was laid-off much of 2009 so I had time to work on the book. Eventually, I'll get motivated to finish it off as it's like 90% done.
Being gainfully employed usually trumps being a published author. Let us know when you finish it.

Quote:
The ingredients are proprietary. Sorry, you'll have to remain frustrated.
Oh well, it was worth asking. Since none of us live forever, please make appropriate long term plans to keep the product available or publish the proprietary bits after you're no longer in the business. And, of course, be careful crossing the street.

Thanks again for taking the time to answer my questions.
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