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 Replies: 20 / Views: 2,388 |
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Valued Member
United States
143 Posts |
I classify my world coins alphabetically by continent.
The problem is that there doesn't even seem to be a consistent list of countries in each continent. After doing some research, there is no official list of which countries are exclusively in Europe and which are in Asia. How do you guys differentiate?
Would it make more sense to just classify the countries alphabetically, regardless of region of location?
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Pillar of the Community
Australia
9379 Posts |
Just go alphabetically by country, then you won't have any problems. I think Turkey is in both Europe and Asia. Steve  |
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Valued Member
 United States
143 Posts |
That's the thing, there are countries that technically border both. And there's no official designation of which country falls in what continent.
I have over 300 countries, and going alphabetically would be very difficult.
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Moderator
 Australia
16810 Posts |
The boundary between "Europe" and "Asia" is more a historic and cultural one, rather than anything you can unambiguously point at geologically or geographically. I sort my secondary coin albums by continent, too, and have the same problem. You have two solutions:
1. Combining Europe and Asia into one "Eurasia" album. The main drawback to this is that "Europe" and "Asia" are already likely to be your two largest albums; a combined Eurasia album is likely to be ten times bigger than the rest of your continents put together. If you're going to do that, you may as well go the whole hog and switch to a completely alphabetized system.
2. Define for yourself a sharp boundary between Europe and Asia, and then make an arbitrary decision as to which side of the line a country falls.
The modern conventional Europe-Asia boundary is a line running down the Ural Mountains, the Ural River, Caspian Sea, Caucasus Mountains, Black Sea and Bosporus. What happens to it in the Aegean and Mediterranean Seas is largely left unsaid. On that basis, the following countries straddle both continents, from north to south:
- Russia
- Kazakhstan
- Azerbaijan
- Georgia
- Turkey
Given the ambiguity of the Mediterranean island situation, we can also add Greece and Cyprus to the list. All the other countries in Central Europe (like Ukraine) and Central Asia (like Kyrgyzstan) are unambiguously 100% on one side of this line or the other.
Now, for these countries straddling the line, you'll have to decide which continent they "belong to". As I see it, there are three possible criteria you could choose based on logic alone:
- location of capital city
- location of largest percentage of land area
- location of largest percentage of population
So, by country:
Moscow is in Europe, as is most of the Russian population. However, by far the largest land area is in the Asian half. I call it "Europe".
Only a tiny slice of Kazakhstan is on the west bank of the Ural River. The capital, most of the population and the largest area are all in Asia. Conclusion: unambiguously Asia.
Azerbaijan and Georgia only have tiny slices of territory north of the Caucasus. Although historically Georgia is considered "European" while Azerbaijan is "Asian", geographically I have to call them both Asia. Neighbouring Armenia is also historically "European" but geographically it's 100% solidly in Asia.
The largest and most famous city in Turkey, Constantinople/Istanbul, is on the European side of the strait. However, it's not the capital, and the vast bulk of the area and population are on the Asian side. So, Asian they are.
The Greek Islands are small in area and population, compared with the European mainland capital, Athens. Greece is "Europe".
Cyprus is usually classified as "European", again mainly for historic and cultural reasons. Geographically, it's an island off the coast of Asia, with the rest of "Europe" hundreds of kilometres away. If anything, we should be arguing whether Cyprus is an "African" or "Asian" island. But, islands are ambiguous. I let it stay in Europe.
Don't say "infinitely" when you mean "very"; otherwise, you'll have no word left when you want to talk about something really infinite. - C. S. Lewis
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Rest in Peace
United States
9104 Posts |
I'd just stick to alphabetical, like in the standard catalog.
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Valued Member
United States
230 Posts |
I'm up to 106 countries and order them alphabetically, regardless of continent.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2605 Posts |
Agree with Sap on most. I have to split my collection into continents, besides I'm not an OFEC kind of guy, I have multiple pages for some countries. I personally have a harder time to draw a boundary between N. and S. America. By the way, "my" Cyprus is in Asia. Quote:
... historically Georgia is considered "European" ... Neighbouring Armenia is also historically "European" ... I believe the sole reason for that is that both Georgia and Armenia are christian while the surrounding is predominantly muslim. |
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Valued Member
United States
143 Posts |
I'm at ALOFEC (at least one from every country) collector, and I consider differences in formal names, empires, etc significant, so my Europe binder alone is about 150 pages. Thus, I need a way of simplifying things, and I don't want to alphabetize the entire world.
Sap, I really like your logic in this matter. Do you happen to have a list of the sovereign countries of Europe that you use? Do you classify the Order of Malta and Kosovo as sovereign?
Do you keep places like Transnistria with Moldova, or do you have it in a separate folder?
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Moderator
Australia
16810 Posts |
Quote:
Sap, I really like your logic in this matter. Do you happen to have a list of the sovereign countries of Europe that you use? No list as such; my general knowledge of geography lets me know roughly where each country is situated, and which side of the line they fall on. Quote:
Do you classify the Order of Malta and Kosovo as sovereign? The Order of Malta is an interesting case. I consider them a "government-in-exile", having been evicted from Malta by Napoleon. They have attained Observer status at the UN, but in recognition of their charitable transnational medical aid they offer, rather than in recognition of sovereignty. Krause's attitude to them has changed over the years: my 1987 edition didn't include them, my 1996 edition did, and my 2006 edition did not. And like Hutt River, they have also suffered from "unofficial" pretenders issuing bogus coinage in their name. Coins denominated in scudi, tari and grani are legitimate SMOM issues. Coins denominated in "liras" were struck by an American pseudo-order with no formal ties to the Italian order; see this old thread. I own a silver 3 scudi, which I bought off forum member Angielczyk (and which is filed under "O" in the primary albums, in between Oman and Overyssel). Kosovo, to my knowledge, has not yet issued any coinage. Kosovo has unilaterally adopted the euro as its currency but cannot issue euro-denominated coinage without joining the Eurozone or signing a treaty with it - neither of which are likely to happen this decade. Quote:
Do you keep places like Transnistria with Moldova, or do you have it in a separate folder? I have to admit, my secondary folder organization is a bit higgledy-piggledy. Once upon a time it was neatly, alphabetically sorted, but a couple of deluges of bulk world coins blasted away the veneer of organization it had, as coins got shoved in every which place, wherever they would fit. I've never motivated myself enough to give it a proper sort-out. For Transnistria, the question is moot, because they're all kept in the primary albums, which are fully entire-world alphabetized with Transnistria sitting in between Tonkin and Travancore. The only Transnistrian coins I own are a type set I bought from ebay stalwart diggafromdover a few years ago, and a couple brought back recently by family and friends that had actually visited the place. Don't say "infinitely" when you mean "very"; otherwise, you'll have no word left when you want to talk about something really infinite. - C. S. Lewis
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Pillar of the Community
Germany
1238 Posts |
Quote:
By the way, "my" Cyprus is in Asia. Do not collect euro coins then. ;) 16+3 euro countries would then be in your "Europe" album, with 1 being in the "Asia" album. For pretty much every practical purpose it does not matter anyway which "continent" a particular country is part of. And people who collect coins from the entire world can, as mentioned before, sort the countries alphabetically ... My "problem" used to be colonies, overseas territories, whatever you call them. For example, a couple of years ago I had a "Portugal" collection which would also include coins from/for various places in Africa and Asia, as I found the similar designs interesting. Today such non-European coins would be in some Africa or Asia album ... except I don't collect them any more. :) Christian |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
539 Posts |
I love the geography lessons! Thank you.
For me though it is much easier to just put my coins in the same order as Krause lists them. I probably don't have nearly the quantity but this helps me to keep track of what I still want to acquire. I'm an OFEC collector(which I don't think actually means just one but that is another topic...)and I use Krause to determine what is an is not a 'country'. I do keep a note that tells me where they are in the world so I may go back and reclassify some based on this discussion but I don't have to move them in my binders - just on my excel sheet
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2605 Posts |
Quote:Quote:
By the way, "my" Cyprus is in Asia. Do not collect euro coins then. ;) ... Turkey and Israel have been participating in various European Cups and Championships, Turkey has been courting the European Union. None of that changes their physical location. I do have euro coins, and when I get my hands on ones from Cyprus they will be promptly placed in the Asian album(s).  |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2605 Posts |
... Not all francs end up under the France heading.
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Moderator
Australia
16810 Posts |
For me, the "euro question" is solved by filing all the circulating euro types under "E" for European Union - yes, even the three mini-states that aren't technically part of the Union - then subsorting them by member-state. That way, all the euro coins can be filed in the same place and even if Turkey, Martinique, Curacao or some other clearly "non-European" entities issue circulating euro coins in the future, they can all still be filed in the same place.
NCLT euro coins, which are only legal tender in the country of issue, still get filed under the country's name.
Don't say "infinitely" when you mean "very"; otherwise, you'll have no word left when you want to talk about something really infinite. - C. S. Lewis
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Rest in Peace
United States
9104 Posts |
Are you counting the Vatican as a mini-state that issues Yurros?
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Moderator
Australia
16810 Posts |
Um, yes. The other two being San Marino and Monaco.
Don't say "infinitely" when you mean "very"; otherwise, you'll have no word left when you want to talk about something really infinite. - C. S. Lewis
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Replies: 20 / Views: 2,388 |
Posted 12/27/2011 8:06 pm
