1741 8 Reales--Actually Hope It's A Fake

Isn't that from the seller telling it's guaranteed with XX% silver ?

I knew those pictures were familiar. His coins indeed are in lower grade silver. And they are fakes afaik :
http://cgi.ebay.com/8-REALES-1767-B...t_940wt_1281

The modern Chinese Fakes are being made right now. Most of them in the last 5 years. In my own humble opinion and definition, a contempory counterfeit is a coin made during the time the original coins circulated with the intention of being passed off as a real coin in a transaction. All this modern junk is made specifically to fool collectors. The "Boston Forgeries" that Bob always talks about were made to pass as real coins in commerce with the asian countries, therefore they would be considered contemporary counterfeits.

ilikeikes The book you are searching for does not exist yet. I am however, hoping to complete the task before I pass on.

Dating a fake is difficult and right now it seems to be a moving target. However, technology seems to hold promise for improved dating in the near future.

The study starts with the forces behind forgery (the economic drivers) and moves to historical studies of economics and manufacturing.

Forgeries were made with two different motives in mind - the first are the Circulating Forgeries made while the coin was in circulation as Money or Bullion. These are referred to normally as Contemporary Circulating Counterfeits. Some (but by no means all) of these are rare. The second kind are Numismatic forgeries made for sale to collectors - these include Replicas and were never meant to be a substitute for money. These as a class are essentially worth just a couple dollars over metal content for interested collectors.

That is an extremely simplistic view but it is the starting point for any discussion of counterfeit coins. Each category has subcategories (one or more) which vary by the coin involved. The Spanish American Portrait 8R coins, for example, are arguably one of the most complex to classify because they circulated legally as money from 1772 to 1933. During that century and a half, these coins BECAME collectible - meaning that there is a long OVERLAP in the possible in making a classification.

Dividing the two basic types for the 8R series has been something I have been working on since 1960.

Forgeries made to circulate have always been made. Forgery may be the world's second oldest profession. But large scale counterfeit production tends to concentrate into certain periods of time when monetary forces changed. These are the periods of monetary crisis when hard money is withdrawn from general circulation due to War or other Historical forces. The list is as long as your arm. These periods vary by locale so when viewing History (especially monetary and economic history) you need to focus each Country separately. In the case of the 8R, the area of circulation was all of the World until 1820. For the US it ended in 1857 but for China it lasted until 1933.


The History of forgery is NOT a complete story yet and new data is coming in all the time as the tools of technology improve.

At present the best you can do is read what has already been written. But read it VERY critically. There are many well accepted axioms that in my opinion are simply incorrect.

For the worlds and seas silver 8 reales (such as the one you posted) I would heartily recommend The Milled Columnarios of Central and South America: Spanish American Pillar Coinage, 1732 to 1772 by Frank Gilboy

As for effectively distinguishing authentic from contemporary counterfeit (collectible by some) or modern forgeries (worthless) that will take a lot of time and practice looking at a very large number of coins. Start with a book with details about the particular series of coins you are most interested in so you know the features of an authentic coin. Then go to coin shows and talk with knowledgeable dealers and collectors and see as many coins of that type as you can. Repeat a few dozen (or hundred) times and you'll start to get the hang of it.

I would strongly encourage you to invest a few hundred dollars in book(s) and time studying them before shelling out hundreds of dollars for coins that may have no value whatsoever.

As others have mentioned, keep in mind that some contemporary counterfeits may have some collector value, but rarely equal to authentic specimens. However, modern forgeries have no value whatsoever to collectors and dealers as paying anything for them only encourages their production.