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Hammered Silver Groat

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drdave's Avatar
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721 Posts
 Posted 01/18/2012  4:55 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add drdave to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
I think - more Info please...I don't even know which is the obverse.

Hammered-Silver-Groat

Hammered-Silver-Groat
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svslav's Avatar
United States
2605 Posts
 Posted 01/18/2012  6:05 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add svslav to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
What makes you call it a groat? It doesn't seem to me big enough for that. By the way, what is the size of the coin?

Furthermore I'm questioning the country attribution: a short cross on one side, seems to be a shield on the other. I haven't seen British coins with this design. The shape of the cross looks more like one on French deniers. Unfortunately I don't have any resources for non-British medieval coins.
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drdave's Avatar
United States
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 Posted 01/18/2012  8:10 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add drdave to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
It's about a U.S. dime size. Thanks for the info, I was just guessing it was British.
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MikeG's Avatar
United Kingdom
128 Posts
 Posted 01/19/2012  04:10 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add MikeG to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Hi Dave, looking through my coin book it appears that the cross inside the circle was used, on and off, on British hammered silver coinage from the time of the Viking Invaders through to the Norman Kings but I can't find an example exactly the same as yours, but there are very few illustrations in the book.
I don't think you can definitely rule out British; it may be worth having a Google search for coins in that period.
Mike.
Edited by MikeG
01/19/2012 04:10 am
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Sap's Avatar
Australia
16869 Posts
 Posted 01/19/2012  07:52 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Sap to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I'm not entirely sure what it is, but I can tell you it's definitely not English, or anywhere else in Britain, either. Nor is it "groat-sized" - groats were typically about the size of an American quarter, and at least one side of a groat had a double-ring of legends around the outside.

It's what's on the other side of the coin that confirms this. British pennies all have portraits on the obverse. This coin does not. The design of this coin is a classic "denier tournois" or "penny of Tours", based on the coinage of emperor Charlemagne and used by numerous Frankish successor states in Europe and by the Crusaders in the Holy Land and Greece. The little crosses in the legend are at the top, so here is your coin, right way up:

Hammered-Silver-Groat

Compare it with the pic in the Wikipedia article. The reverse is on the left, with the legend around the cross +TVRONIS CIVIS - City of Tours. On the right is the obverse, with the "castle tournois" in the middle and the ruler named around the outside. I think it's an abbey coin from the abbey of St Martin, near Tours, one of the wealthiest abbeys in France at the time. Here's an abbey coin to compare it with. Unfortunately, I can't read enough of the obverse legend to be absolutely sure.
Don't say "infinitely" when you mean "very"; otherwise, you'll have no word left when you want to talk about something really infinite. - C. S. Lewis
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drdave's Avatar
United States
721 Posts
 Posted 01/19/2012  08:54 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add drdave to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks - very fascinating!
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