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Would Verdicare Help This Poor Large Cent?

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Earle42's Avatar
United States
10038 Posts
 Posted 02/08/2012  7:36 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Earle42 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
I think you want extra light and not extra virgin

Thanks for that tip - I will make sure I get this.


Quote:
It is still a nice looking coin earle42 but it has the green/blue

I just wish I could know what this little gem has seen and what in the world the story behind the green gunk is.

Hopefully be getting the oil soon.

I just thought - would a pre-soak in maybe just water with a mild dish detergent be OK? I do not know if dish detergent has anything that can react to the copper - I would think not - but I do not want to ruin this worse than it is. But wouldn't it be great to find this gunk is water soluble? Anyone with experience?
How much squash could a Sasquatch squash if a Sasquatch would squash squash?
Download and read: Grading the graders
Costly TPG ineptitude and No FG Kennedy halves
https://ln5.sync.com/dl/7ca91bdd0/w...i3b-rbj9fir2
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sel_69l's Avatar
Australia
21788 Posts
 Posted 02/08/2012  9:08 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add sel_69l to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Just to provide a bit of chemical background:
The green stuff is a complex and variable double salt of copper, known as
copper hydroxycarbonate. Unfortunately, it is not soluble in acetone, water, alcohol or detergent. You need not bother with a pre soak in any of these, they will have no effect at all.
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Earle42's Avatar
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 Posted 02/08/2012  11:05 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Earle42 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks for that info also. I emailed Bad Thad about this to see what he thinks also.
How much squash could a Sasquatch squash if a Sasquatch would squash squash?
Download and read: Grading the graders
Costly TPG ineptitude and No FG Kennedy halves
https://ln5.sync.com/dl/7ca91bdd0/w...i3b-rbj9fir2
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BadThad's Avatar
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 Posted 02/08/2012  11:43 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add BadThad to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
DO NOT SOAK IT IN OLIVE OIL! I'm not going to type it out right now but I have many times in this forum. Using oil will commit you to it. There's no turning back and I never recommend to use ANY oil on coins.

You have heavy verdigris. It is of a type that is very difficult to remove. If you do remove the heavy stuff, there will be surface damage, i.e. pitting. I recommend to start with a soak of VC of 24 hours per side. Post pictures after so we can see if you need to go further.
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VERDI-CARE™ INVENTOR
https://verdi.care/
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Earle42's Avatar
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 Posted 02/09/2012  12:05 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Earle42 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks Bad Thad - I really appreciate your helping out.
How much squash could a Sasquatch squash if a Sasquatch would squash squash?
Download and read: Grading the graders
Costly TPG ineptitude and No FG Kennedy halves
https://ln5.sync.com/dl/7ca91bdd0/w...i3b-rbj9fir2
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Bryan1315's Avatar
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14454 Posts
 Posted 02/09/2012  1:10 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Bryan1315 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I think the olive oil is the best thing to try on this coin
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jbuck's Avatar
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189115 Posts
 Posted 02/09/2012  2:46 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jbuck to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Having personally used VERDI-CAREâ„¢, I can recommend it for this coin. I have never used olive oil on a coin, but knowing how it it works, I cannot recommend its use.
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sel_69l's Avatar
Australia
21788 Posts
 Posted 02/09/2012  4:45 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add sel_69l to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
First of all, let's see how it goes after following BadThad's directions.
VerdiCare I guess, was originally designed to address at least in part, specificslly the removal of a light green cast from bronze and copper coins.

Obvious improvement in the 'after' pictures was noted.

That was not the original intention of olive oil; it's application to the treatment of ancient coins was no doubt discovered by accident, perhaps centuries ago.

Perhaps the olive oil is still an option if the Verdicare is unable to get far enough. It would be best to look at the 'before and afters' of Verdicare traatment first, and if necessary, make a considered decision on the use or not of oilve oil after that.

The antiquarians of a century ago never had access to VerdiCare!
I have suggested the use of VerdiCare for late roman Bronze coins in the ancients forum.
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BadThad's Avatar
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 Posted 02/09/2012  5:51 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add BadThad to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I share with you all an excerpt from my book:

The problems with using EVO are many fold:

• The acid-verdigris reaction process proceeds very slowly. The mobility of the free protons in an oil solution is very low. Just imagine if you dropped cork balls into a jar of water and into a jar of oil and then shook them side-by-side. In the water solution the ball would rapidly more around as you shook it. It the oil solution the ball would barely be moving as you shook it. This is why it can take months of soaking even a lightly infected verdigris coin in EVO before results are seen.
• EVO is natural so it degrades and goes rancid. Over a period of time the oil will oxidize and spoil as bacteria eat away at it and grow. It must be replaced frequently with fresh oil or the spoiled EVO may cause harm to the coin surface. The complex organic degradation products could prove to be quite harmful.
• The chemical composition and acids levels are inconsistent. Being a natural product, there is a lot of variation in the acidity, ingredients and contaminants. A bottle that has worked for the conservation of one coin may not be exactly the same in the next bottle.
• Acids are very corrosive to copper and the oil will solubilize some of the natural brown patina that has developed on a copper coin. Working together, both of these mechanisms may alter the coins appearance and may even permanently destroy the surface by pitting it.
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BadThad's Avatar
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 Posted 02/09/2012  5:59 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add BadThad to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Another disadvantage is once you put oil onto a coin, the only way to remove it is with xylene. Even then, you won't get full removal on a coin with corrosion because the oil and it's impurities tend to get deep down into the corrosion. Assuming the oil doesn't produce the desired results (which it rarely does), you're now forced into using more/different treatments on the coin. A rule of thumb for successful conservation is LESS IS BETTER. The more things you try, the greater the chances you'll screw-up your coin.
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Earle42's Avatar
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10038 Posts
 Posted 05/02/2013  10:49 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Earle42 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
FINALLY located this cent again and followed the direction CAREFULLY on the Verdi-Care bottle.
edited for following:

I shoud have read through this thread before treating it with Verdi-Care the other day. BadThad said a 24 hour soak, which I did not do. I guess this means it should go back in for 24 hours? BadThad?


Original pics:

Would-Verdicare-Help-This-Poor-Large-Cent?
Would-Verdicare-Help-This-Poor-Large-Cent?


Post Verdi-Care pics.

Would-Verdicare-Help-This-Poor-Large-Cent?

Would-Verdicare-Help-This-Poor-Large-Cent?

I am not happy with the pics - I need to get them in sunlight like the original ones.

OK- it is better - but now what? How do I get rid of the remaining gunk? Another application of Verdi-Care for a longer period?

How much squash could a Sasquatch squash if a Sasquatch would squash squash?
Download and read: Grading the graders
Costly TPG ineptitude and No FG Kennedy halves
https://ln5.sync.com/dl/7ca91bdd0/w...i3b-rbj9fir2
Edited by Earle42
05/02/2013 10:54 pm
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smokeriderdon's Avatar
United States
3755 Posts
 Posted 05/03/2013  12:30 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add smokeriderdon to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Yep, more Verdi care. If that was the result for less than 24 hours, more of that will come off.
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Drsandman2's Avatar
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1374 Posts
 Posted 05/03/2013  01:30 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Drsandman2 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Yeah, Verdichem would help get some of that verdiris off if you know how to use it. Obviously, there is some corrosion that it wont solve, but I imagine much of that stuff MIGHT come off. But this is a common date large cent, and probably not worth the time.
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John1's Avatar
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56855 Posts
 Posted 05/03/2013  05:00 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add John1 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
IMHO,go ahead and treat it again with Verdi because you can't ruin it much more. It (kinda) looks like it was cleaned with vinegar
John1
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Earle42's Avatar
United States
10038 Posts
 Posted 05/03/2013  09:25 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Earle42 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
OK - got better pics this morning using sunlight - this time it shows actual coloring instead of the coloring in the last pics:


Would-Verdicare-Help-This-Poor-Large-Cent?

Would-Verdicare-Help-This-Poor-Large-Cent?
How much squash could a Sasquatch squash if a Sasquatch would squash squash?
Download and read: Grading the graders
Costly TPG ineptitude and No FG Kennedy halves
https://ln5.sync.com/dl/7ca91bdd0/w...i3b-rbj9fir2
Edited by Earle42
05/03/2013 09:28 am
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