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Replies: 28 / Views: 9,552 |
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New Member
United States
9 Posts |
I was thinking about buying a few proof sets on ebay but got to thinking. Can the clear sealed case that proof set coins come in be opened without damages allowing someone to insert uncirculated/circulated coins? If so, this would allow them to sell proof sets as new and be very bad for the community. P.S. I don't want to lose money!
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2295 Posts |
Yes, the sets can be opened and coins can be swapped. Then it can be glued shut again to look as good as new. I have heard of at least once, from a silver proof set, that this was done and clad coins were put in place.
So if you are buying any sets, buy at a coin show and check them. I don't know how closely any dealer looks at the sets to verify them, if they bought them from anyone other than from the Mint.
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Valued Member
United States
286 Posts |
wouldn't the coins have the "S" mint mark showing that they are proofs?
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4132 Posts |
Yeah, but you could still swap clad proofs for silver and it would be harder to tell unless you were careful. You could also cherry-pick the nicest quality proofs from a number of sets, send them in for grading to sell at a premium, and then reassemble sets from the cruddier ones and nobody would be the wiser.
Edited by CaptainFwiffo 02/10/2012 3:30 pm
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2295 Posts |
And if it did happen and you bought it on ebay, I'm not sure if you could return them, since the dealer can deny it and say you swapped the coins instead. I don't know who ebay would believe and support, but most likely it would be the seller.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1653 Posts |
"Can you counterfeit annual U.S. Mint Proof Sets?"
As far as I know, they can counterfeit anything.
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Moderator
 United States
187862 Posts |
Quote: Then it can be glued shut again to look as good as new. There is no need to glue it; doing so would actually be a sign of tampering. Proof sets have not been sealed for more than ten years now, and before then they were only sealed together in spots.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1080 Posts |
? I must be really bad at opening proof sets. I have to tear up the cases to get them open.
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Rest in Peace
United States
9104 Posts |
 , replytodh! On many sets, there isn't any "sealed", you could switch coins easily. I'm not saying it will never happen--some people will scam any way they can--but it's not real likely. Dealers rarely do anything but spot check proof sets. Many sets carry little premium over silver content, so there's little or no profit to be made switching.
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Rest in Peace
United States
9104 Posts |
Quote: I don't know who ebay would believe and support, but most likely it would be the seller. ebay has repeatedly shown they hate sellers, with things like not allowing them to leave anything other than +FB.
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
14454 Posts |
I have never had any problem opening any US Mint product. I do not think they actually seal any holders they have their coins in any more, or at least I haven't came across any that have been sealed
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Pillar of the Community
United States
764 Posts |
It is possible to swap coins in proof sets and it is actually not very difficult. The best way to tell the difference between clad and silver proofs is experience. Once you look at enough proofs, it is easy. Clad proofs have darker gray color with a slight yellow tone and silver proofs have a lighter gray color with a slight blue tone.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
5604 Posts |
Buyer beware..... I also believe the buyer would receive the benefit of any doubt.....( under normal circumstances)..
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2734 Posts |
Quote: allowing someone to insert uncirculated/circulated coins? Substitution of non-Proof coins would be all to easy to identify. It's the swapping of clad (copper-nickel) 1992-up Proof coins into 1992-up Silver Proof lenses (aka the clear case) that you have to watch out for. Doing the tissue test is one way to tell. In a Silver Proof Set, there will be a 90% silver Dime and Half-Dollar close to the Nickel. Compare the color of the Dime and Half to the Nickel when all are under the layer of tissue. Alternatively, compare known Clad or Silver Proof Sets (for instance, Sets you buy directly from the Mint) next to the questionable Set.
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
17884 Posts |
It has been done for some time or at least a variation of it. It really started back in 1999 when they stopped sealing the proof sets. For awhile on ebay there was a big market in "error" proof sets that were missing one of the State Quarters and had two of one of the others. The scammers would buy five normal sets, open them, swap the quarters around and sell the "error" sets for $300 to $400 apiece. Then in 2000 some special "VIP" 10 coin 1999 proof sets began hitting the market. The 1999 sets were nine coin sets because the SBA came out late in the year and wasn't included in the set. The sellers were promoting these sets as special sets made up for some VIP's and they were very rare. The scammers were opening up a 10 coin 2000 proof set and replacing the coins with 1999 coins and the 1999 SBA. Then putting them in a 1999 box. These sets were bringing as much as $1500. If you knew your proof sets you knew what was going on because they changed the color of the insert between the 1999 and 2000 sets. Then the price of the 1999 silver proof sets went through the roof scammers opened them up slabbed the silver coins and sold the slabbed silver set, then refilled the set with clads and put them back in the silver proof set box and sold them on ebay. I have also seen 1990 prestige proof sets that have been opened and the proof cent replaced with a nice BU Philadelphia coin, reassembled and sold as the rare 1990 missing S set. They liked using the Prestige set because the outer holder hid the signs of tampering on the proof set holder inside. These would bring a couple grand.
Edited by Conder101 02/11/2012 10:28 am
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2295 Posts |
Those are some pretty amazing scams and good to know of.
It is a shame a few sellers spoil it for everyone.
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Replies: 28 / Views: 9,552 |