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I Need Information On Three Chinese Coins, Please. | Fantasy

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New Member

United States
2 Posts
 Posted 03/13/2012  10:45 am Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add vamadmike to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
I purchased these three coins at a booth selling "second hand" jewelry and such.

I-Need-Information-On-Three-Chinese-Coins,-Please.-|-Fantasy

I-Need-Information-On-Three-Chinese-Coins,-Please.-|-Fantasy

I-Need-Information-On-Three-Chinese-Coins,-Please.-|-Fantasy

I-Need-Information-On-Three-Chinese-Coins,-Please.-|-Fantasy

I-Need-Information-On-Three-Chinese-Coins,-Please.-|-Fantasy

I-Need-Information-On-Three-Chinese-Coins,-Please.-|-Fantasy

I've only been able to find limited information on the silver Dragon, and none on the other two. All are silver dollar size and weigh 1.1 oz (31 gr). Honestly, I don't actually collect coins except for their precious metal content, but these are so different and in such good shape (some wear and I think someone tried to clean them up), I have an interest in finding out more. I had to crop and shrink these photos for the forum, but I can provide more detailed photos if anyone needs them. I've provided reverse and obverse of each. Thanks in advance for your help - Mike

Identified - moved to Exonumia forum - Sap
Valued Member
coinsnpaper's Avatar
Canada
480 Posts
 Posted 03/13/2012  11:23 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add coinsnpaper to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
These are all "classic" modern (post 1991) fakes/sometimes copies made in China. They are available in China for $1 each if you are a good bargainer. They are not silver.
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Bacchus2's Avatar
United Kingdom
2878 Posts
 Posted 03/14/2012  02:37 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Bacchus2 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I hope you can get your money back... they are indeed fakes.
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Sap's Avatar
Australia
16830 Posts
 Posted 03/14/2012  07:38 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Sap to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Welcome to the forum, but sorry to confirm the bad news. They're definitely not genuine coins, and definitely not silver. Sorry.
Don't say "infinitely" when you mean "very"; otherwise, you'll have no word left when you want to talk about something really infinite. - C. S. Lewis
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United States
2 Posts
 Posted 03/14/2012  08:17 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add vamadmike to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I appreciate everyone's response. Luckily I didn't spend enough on the coins to justify returning them - as I stated, I was only looking at the precious metal content and thought I had gotten a great deal from that standpoint. Live and learn. I would like to ask another question on that subject. I've performed every basic test I know to verify that there was some silver in the coins except for the nitric acid test. Ring test compared to an 1898 silver dollar was similar with a slightly lower pitch (which I attributed to the larger size of the fake) and lasted about the same time. tissue test also passed when compared to the sample silver dollar with a modern quarter as control. Weight seemed slightly off given the size compared to the Morgan dollar, but I attributed that to a smaller percentage of silver. Color and reflectivity seems similar as well and patina cleaned up with both lemon juice and silver cleaner. I held off on the nitric acid test to avoid any damage, but now that I know these are fake, I can perform that. What I'd like to know is, have they really gotten that good at counterfeiting that they can make the metal so similar without any precious metal content and what can I look for that would be a dead giveaway? In other words, if I happen to see some coins in a similar situation, is there a test I can perform that would quickly confirm silver content?
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coinsnpaper's Avatar
Canada
480 Posts
 Posted 03/15/2012  11:43 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add coinsnpaper to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The colour of the coins is not like silver, and also the feel of the coins is not like silver.
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Sap's Avatar
Australia
16830 Posts
 Posted 03/17/2012  10:07 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Sap to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
What I'd like to know is, have they really gotten that good at counterfeiting that they can make the metal so similar without any precious metal content...

I hate to break it to you, but for silver coins, the answer is "yes". The Chinese have known how to do that for centuries. They invented cupronickel a couple of millennia before the West discovered how to make it. It's probably part of the reason why, as a culture, they never seemed to have trusted silver as a form of official money.

Quote:
...and what can I look for that would be a dead giveaway? In other words, if I happen to see some coins in a similar situation, is there a test I can perform that would quickly confirm silver content?

Unfortunately, it's gotten to the point where you have to assume that any coins acquired "at a booth" - at a flea market, street festival or similar such place - are non-genuine non-silver non-coins, and pay accordingly. Here on the forum, we've got the luxury of several hours spare to sit here with reference books and look up websites, trying to identify and verify your coins. Strolling the bustling marketplace with hagglers and hawkers on all sides, you're not going to have that luxury. Unless you can get your hands on a portable XRF analyser, which cost about as much to buy as a new car, there's no simple test you can do on-the-spot to definitively prove their metal content.

The only other test I can recommend is the photo test. I don't know why, but many these Chinese base-metal fakes often look very good in hand but, when you take their picture, turn up greenish-yellow coloured. It seems to be a case where "the camera doesn't lie" actually holds true. I can't verify for sure that it'll work every time (for your photos above, only coin #1 is definitively failing the photo test) but it's all I can offer you.

Apart from that, if you're going to try to but silver coins "on the cheap", all I can recommend is that you become very familiar with what the genuine coins look like. For the specific problems these coins have:

#1: This reverse ("dragon" side), with the Arabic script at the four compass-points, was only used on the Muslim-majority province of Sinkiang (now spelled Xinjiang); I believe the Arabic translates to "Kashgar mint". However, genuine dollar-sized 1 tael coins from Sinkiang Province look completely different on the obverse: here's an example. The obverse on your coin actually says (in Chinese) "Kiangsi Province" (now spelled Jiangxi), which is in itself a problem since the mint in Kiangsi province never actually made any silver coins, at all. So this coin is a "fantasy mule", with the two sides claiming to be two different coins struck at two different mints at opposite ends of the Empire.

#2 and #3: the obverses are fantasies - no Chinese dollars ever bear a facing portrait of an emperor; his likeness would have been considered too sacred to be touched by commoners on coinage (note that this doesn't ban portraits from Chinese coins completely; the Republic period dollars often have portraits on them). The reverses appear to be based on the extremely scarce early mace/tael coinage, such as this example from Jilin mint.

I should also point out that genuine old Chinese coins are extremely popular right now, in mainland China, Taiwan, Japan, and the West. They're simply not likely to be sitting around unnoticed in junk boxes selling for melt or under melt.
Don't say "infinitely" when you mean "very"; otherwise, you'll have no word left when you want to talk about something really infinite. - C. S. Lewis
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United States
7 Posts
 Posted 06/08/2013  3:38 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add tomchang1924 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I'm sorry to say that they're all silver-plated fake.
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