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1984 DDO LMC

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pfriddle's Avatar
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151 Posts
 Posted 03/24/2012  8:37 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add pfriddle to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
I gave a friend of mine a list of coins that had hub doubling etc. that he should set aside as he was searching for copper and wheats. We found a 2000 WAM, a 94 DDR and no less than NINE of these.
These coins were pulled from a change jar in Texas. There were a bunch of these bright red shiny '84 cents and a bunch turned out to have some doubling.
I'm faily confident but can you confirm my identification and also maybe pose a theory on how we found so many together.

Thanks

1984-DDO-LMC

1984-DDO-LMC

1984-DDO-LMC

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1984-DDO-LMC

1984-DDO-LMC
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John1's Avatar
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 Posted 03/25/2012  05:46 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add John1 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
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coop's Avatar
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 Posted 03/25/2012  09:08 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add coop to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Appears to be Machine Doubling, but the notching on LIBERTY makes it confusing. But on the big one for that year doesn' have the notching on the tops of the devices of LIBERTY.
http://www.coppercoins.com/lincoln/...ie_state=mds
But more is involved on a doubled die. The devices on the link above enlarge the devices. I don't see that on your images.

The reason so many are found together is probably they came from a roll/rolls that were OBW rolls. If they are machine doubled, the doubling should be different from coin to coin in the slightest. If they are a doubled die, then they should all be exactly the same. Here is an example:
1984-DDO-LMC
When looking at these images, they are all different but are from the same die as you can see a common marker on each coin. (NW/SE die scratch)

So if you could compare the examples to each other and see if all have the same exact notching on LIBERTY that might help with that information. There are cases where a coin can be machine doubled and a doubled die. But I would like for this information first and see if they reveal something about the batch of coins.
Coop

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DrDon's Avatar
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 Posted 03/25/2012  10:17 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add DrDon to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I agree with coop."LIBERTY" looks interesting in the photo.Perhaps Mr.Daughtrey needs to have a look.
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coop's Avatar
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 Posted 03/25/2012  10:20 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add coop to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Looking at the obverse image, the coin appears to be normal sized devices.
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pfriddle's Avatar
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 Posted 03/25/2012  3:01 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add pfriddle to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks for the feedback. Now, I'm not so sure.

I tried to put pictures side by side of each of the coins. They don't look exactly the same but at least some of it is because of my photography skills. I numbered the pics if you'd like to see more of a particular one.

I took another look at number 5 (middle one). I'm seeing notching all over the place on that one. Does this one look like machine douling?

Thanks again.



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coop's Avatar
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 Posted 03/25/2012  3:28 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add coop to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Try placing the light at 12:00 on your next batch of images. I think the side angle direction of the LIBERTY is reflecting strange. Notice on these image how the overal device looks wider. It is at 12:00 on the date. The WE the light is at 6:00. But normally I use 12:00 position for the lighting. (The light is fixed on my scope. I achieve the different light directions by rotating the coin.)
1984-DDO-LMC
Edited by coop
03/25/2012 3:30 pm
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 Posted 03/25/2012  3:38 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add IC Double to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I think whats going on with this coin is youre having some split plating issues along with mechanical doublings.
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pfriddle's Avatar
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151 Posts
 Posted 03/25/2012  6:05 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add pfriddle to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
All I have is a little USB microscope. It has a bunch of LEDs on the end so The lighting moves with the angle of the picture. I tried taking them from 12:00 (picture and lighting) but that was kinda tricky. I decided to put it in a 2x2 and shoot straight down (tough to do without the flip when the scope is part on and part off the coin).

So, here's what I got. I also took some pics of WE and TRUST. These are all coin #5 (same as above).



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coop's Avatar
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 Posted 03/25/2012  8:05 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add coop to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The lighting is probably making too much show. With a single light source you can get light and shadows. The light makes it all look light. The full size image shlw that nothing is hub doubled, but when you scan in it appears differently. A hands on might be better on this. Send me a private message and I'll see if we could set that up?
Coop
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coppercoins's Avatar
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 Posted 03/25/2012  9:30 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add coppercoins to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The coin in question in this thread was struck by a die suffering from deterioration. The "doubling" you see is slightly recessed on the coin - a shadow effect - on the outside of the devices. This is one of a number of ways that die wear manifested itself in early zinc cents. It is very common and carries no premium value.
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John1's Avatar
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 Posted 03/26/2012  05:09 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add John1 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I see what looks like notch marks on the 1 and 9 and 4. Neat coin. I would send it to coop to look at. Let us know what you find out.
John1
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