| Author |
 Replies: 20 / Views: 3,486 |
|
Forum Dad
 United States
24154 Posts |
The following is a commentary by Laura Sperber of Legend Numismatics
FINALLY- THE VOTE
After a year or two of dodging the bullet, this week at CSNS the all mighty PNG will be voting to accept or reject a definition of coin doctoring. There is absolutely NO excuse to push it back, cancel, or delay the vote. The membership was given this information in advance. While I have not seen the definition, I already fully support it-because I believe the 20 or so people who helped draft it want nothing more then to stop coin doctoring. For ANY PNG member NOT to vote FOR this, says volumes about which side they are on or who they are. Even the smaller dealers who have felt bullied, now can make a difference.
WHAT A YES VOTE WILL DO
What a wake up call the PNG and its membership will get. Those coin docs who thought they'd never be spanked-its coming. No more wall of silence from your buddies. I predict after the first complaint is filed and action taken, you WILL see a dramatic reduction in current doctoring. This definition (if adopted) mean action. It will allow collectors with doctored coins to be able to file direct complaints at the PNG members who sold them the coins. A few big RETAIL dealers who have been mules WILL finally be exposed as will some other shocking entities. Finally, collectors WILL be able to bring the docs to justice-even if the grading services or fellow coin dealers can't or won't. Voting FOR adoption will be a game changer for the PNG and the collecting community. The PNG finally would be showing the collector and its membership its stands for GOOD, NOT EVIL. Of course you can bet the ranch the PNG will do its best to change the meaning, avoid trials, etc. That will be another crusade.
A YES vote will put the PNG in a positive view of the public. The public has to realize, its only a baby step for the PNG. Don't think all the docs in the organization won't do their best to render the definition useless. Today, the PNG is a mistrusted wasted organization that certainly can not police itself. Voting YES, WILL be a HUGE step forward in shedding that image.
WHAT A NO VOTE WILL DO
If there is a NO vote, and the PNG is not immediately disbanded, it would be a sad day for all collectors and HONEST dealers. A NO vote would prove out the PNG membership wants to hide and continue its corrupt and unethical ways while caring for its own. It would be a rare case where EVIL-true EVIL would win and say coin doctoring and cheating to get ahead is ok. I think it would be the beginning of the end of a positive rare coin market and the safety of third party grading.
At that point, we would need federal intervention in the hobby. It would be time for regulations for dealers and the grading services. These regulations would change the hobby as we know it, but for that to happen its proven we can't police ourselves-which is pretty much a NO vote. There is NO excuse for the PNG to vote this down.
MY OPINION
I really want to see the definition passed, I'd be shocked if they did not. Even if passed, I'd like the PNG to publicly name each member that voted NO and their reason. I can not see why an organization that claims it is dedicated to protecting its members and the hobby wouldn't have a unanimous YES vote. So far, the PNG culture has denied from the reality of what some of its members unquestionably have done. A YES vote and enforcement is a HUGE step in making the PNG mean something.
There will be pain: there are an awful lot of doctored coins out there. I look forward to collectors and dealers finally being able to get justice for all the damage that has been done. I predict in 6 months to a year, the PNG WILL be swamped with complaints. I can't wait until the criminals are clearly exposed. Hey, there has been a long time of avoiding this dreaded subject, now the PNG and its membership have to own up pay the price! The smart coin docs should QUIT the second this definition is adopted. Lets see how gutsy they are. I know I have a few coins I am looking forward to filing complaints on.
The PNG needed this wake up call. They are so out of touch overall. Even for the one day 3/4 empty bourse they hold prior to major shows (where you can't breath without PNG permission) they use those childish invitations because they think its exclusive. PLEASE! Walk into any PNG day, what do you see? Nothing that makes that organization look any good!
|
|
|
|
Pillar of the Community
United States
1388 Posts |
It's good they are doing this, but what confuses me is the fact that they dont have a definition of it already ((  )) |
|
Pillar of the Community
United States
3453 Posts |
Anybody have a link to the definition that they will be voting on?
|
|
Pillar of the Community
United States
3294 Posts |
|
|
Pillar of the Community
United States
7840 Posts |
Edited by oih82w8
04/16/2012 5:57 pm
|
|
Valued Member
United States
292 Posts |
I'd hate to be voting yes on a definition that has obvious loopholes. :P
I support the cause nonetheless.
|
|
Forum Dad
 United States
24154 Posts |
|
|
Moderator
United States
23522 Posts |
<3 Laura Sperber. <3 her to death.
|
|
Forum Dad
United States
24154 Posts |
I just wish she'd speak her mind once in a while.  |
|
Pillar of the Community
United States
9792 Posts |
Quote:
<3 Laura Sperber. <3 her to death. So much so I sent her an email, telling her just how glad I was she was on the right side of the issue For the record I've never been too enamored of the PNG myself for similar reasons as Laura.  And I've never even met her though we have a bunch of mutual friends in the business. I've worked with dealers that were members but I could never see any benifit from them myself. "Buy the Book Before You Buy the Coin" - Aaron R. Feldman - "And read it" - Me 2013! ANA Life Member #3288 in good standing since 1981, ANS, Early American Coppers Member (EAC), Colonial Coin Collectors Club member (C4), Conder Token Collector Club member (CTCC), Civil War Token Society (CWTS) member, Liberty Seated Collectors Club (LSCC) & Numismatic Bibliomania Society member (NBS), USMex, Member in good standing, 2¢ variety collector. See my want page: http://goccf.com/t/140440 |
|
Bedrock of the Community
United States
17884 Posts |
OK the link shows a version that John Albanese has been promoting but not what the final definition they will be voting one is. I think if I was in the PNG I would vote no on any definition I'm asked to vote on without reading. Laura want everyone to vote yes no matter what it says. I would expect them to be informed what the definition is before they are asked to vote, but it would also be nice if they had some time to think about it too. This is sounding like Here are your ballots, here is the definition, vote yes or no, pass the ballots to the end of the aisle for collection.
|
|
Pillar of the Community
United States
1554 Posts |
From what I've read so far I'd vote NO.
|
|
Valued Member
United States
333 Posts |
http://www.coinweek.com/news/coin-g...-definition/It is adopted. "1) Movement, addition to, or otherwise altering of metal, so that a coin appears to be in a better state of preservation, or more valuable than it otherwise would be. A few examples are plugging, whizzing, polishing, engraving, "lasering" and adding or removing mint marks. 2) Addition of any substance to a coin so that it appears to be in a better state of preservation or more valuable than it otherwise would be. The use of solvents and/or commercially available dilute acids, such as Jeweluster, by qualified professionals is not considered coin doctoring. 3) Intentional exposure of a coin to any chemicals, substances, or processes which impart toning, such that the coin appears to be in a better state of preservation or more valuable than it otherwise would be. Naturally occurring toning imparted during long-term storage using established/traditional methods, such as coin albums, rolls, flips, or envelopes, does not constitute coin doctoring."
|
|
Moderator
United States
23522 Posts |
Quote:
The use of solvents and/or commercially available dilute acids, such as Jeweluster, by qualified professionals is not considered coin doctoring. Interesting. |
|
Bedrock of the Community
United States
19943 Posts |
Seem reasonable to me. Importantly, they addressed conservation, which is critical to mention if you're defining what is and what is not acceptable: Quote:
2. Conservation
Conservation of coinage may include, but is not limited to, the removal of loosely adhered surface contaminants or incidental oils or grease; removal of prior, intentionally applied coatings; and the removal of harmful surface contaminants, with subsequent stabilization of the underlying metal. Additionally, the historically accepted procedure of dipping coins in dilute acids to remove unattractive toning may in some cases be considered conservation. The goals of such conservation steps are to stabilize the surface of any treated coin, as well as to bring the coin within current market standards of acceptability. In all cases, conservation should be performed by skilled, well-trained technicians as even very minor mishandling can cause permanent and irreparable damage to a coin's surface.
Methods of conservation that are considered acceptable by the PNG-
1) Low intensity, short term ultrasonic bath.
2) Use of rose thorn or similar device to remove carbon or particles without exposure of underlying raw metal.
3) Immersion in non-reactive solvent (water; acetone; alcohol; surfactants and other non-reactive organic compounds).
4) Additionally, when performed properly, dipping coins in dilute acids to remove unattractive toning is considered conservation.
Lincoln Cent Lover!VERDI-CARE™ INVENTOR https://verdi.care/
|
|
Pillar of the Community
United States
1554 Posts |
OK, sounds more reasonable as to the conservation. I'm quite scepticle to rules imposed on any aspect of the coin hobby regardless and specificaly if it involves Dealers resposibilities. As in any trade/business/etc. as for the consumer it has always and will and should always be "buyer beware", unless of course as it seems to be as of late that we need a law or rule governing or protecting everything and everybody....Anyways...
|
| |
Replies: 20 / Views: 3,486 |
Posted 04/16/2012 2:37 pm
