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 Replies: 16 / Views: 4,930 |
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Pillar of the Community
France
1591 Posts |
Here is a very scarce 2 reales, even more scarce in this quality. It was minted in Pasto, a very short-lived mexican mint during the war for independence. It bears a unique legend for this period, making reference to the upcoming mexican constitution.    |
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Pillar of the Community
Czech Republic
803 Posts |
Pasto was a Colombian mint, no?
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Pillar of the Community
Czech Republic
803 Posts |
Found in Krause: KM# 74. 2 Reales. Note: The P mint mark on this coin has been traditionally attributed to Popayan, but arguments are currently being put forth that the P may stand for Pasto, making this the first coin of Ecuador. In 1820, Pasto was simply a city in the newly-organized Gran Colombia or United Provinces of Nueva Granada. In was not until 1830 that Ecuador withdrew from Bolivar's visionary unified government for all of northern-most South America.
Thank you for posting this, Mathieu. Really cool history behind this coin.
Edited by TwoKopeiki
05/10/2012 9:23 pm
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Pillar of the Community
 France
1591 Posts |
Oops, Ecuador yes, I was too fast posting (it was actually listed in Colombia in the auction).
That one costed me an arm (well, for a 2 reales), but I was glad to have found this mint as well - I just learned about it a couple of month ago.
The history behind it is indeed very interesting, and as I said, the legend is unique :)
(again, a coin for specialists, as it doesn't look perfect as some others we posted earlier)
Oh, I was about to forget... Thanks for Mr Sedwick for this one :)
Here is the auction description :
Pasto, Colombia, bust 2 reales, Ferdinand VII (bust of Charles IV), 1822O. KM-74; Restrepo-115.1; CT-973. 6.4 grams.
Well detailed for this interesting single-date, single-assayer issue from a revolutionary-era Royalist mint, also distinctive as the only New World issue to mention the new Spanish Constitution in the legend.
Jorge Ortiz Murias collection of Colombian colonial minors.
Edited by MathieuMa
05/11/2012 02:46 am
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1757 Posts |
INCREDIBLE! I have the finest cabinet of Spanish American Mint off-metal contemporary counterfeit 2 Reales designated under Kleeberg varieities as per the ANS Coinage of Americas Conference on contemporary counterfeits. This is a great association piece. I wonder if its silver or german silver (Cu/Zn) - being a crude legitimate Pasto, Columbia minted coin - silver. This would make a great association piece <BG>.
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Pillar of the Community
France
1591 Posts |
You have a contemporary counterfeit 2 reales from the Pasto mint ?
Not sure I got what you meant :)
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1757 Posts |
No. My collection involves contemporary counterfeits of CAROLUS III, CAROLUS IIII and Ferdinand VII pieces composed of brass, bronze, german silver, copper, mercury/tin,silver amalgams over debased alloys. Struck pieces only. Your crude legitimate piece reminds me of these crude pieces in my collection. I would like to make you an offer of $1,000 for your piece. Just kidding ... but its NICE. If you do come across any off-metals for Spanish American Mints (not Spain issues) let me know privately.
John Lorenzo
United States
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Pillar of the Community
Czech Republic
803 Posts |
John, I have someone contact me about a set of Charles IV dies that I believe were used for counterfeiting and since this is not my area of expertise, I would like to connect the two of you.
Regards,
Roman.
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Pillar of the Community
France
1591 Posts |
colonialjohn : ok, I thought you were saying that it was a fake one :D (well, actually it can look like a fake one ...)
As for the offer, I would keep it for that price - I'm not collecting for money (I paid less).
I'll let you know if I find any odd new world 2 reales during my quests, don't worry :) (and Swamperbob as well)
TK : if you have pictures of those, it would be very interesting to see that artwork :)
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1757 Posts |
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Pillar of the Community
France
1591 Posts |
This coin is indeed impressive !
I didn't knew there was that much in contemporary counterfeight (actually, I knew there was interest, but not with those high prices)
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1962 Posts |
That Pasto piece actually qualifies, for those who don't know these, as better than average in terms of strike and usual level of wear... I've watched the price on these push up over the past few years, I think catching a ride with the general market for early Ecuador (and this piece, as mentioned, is believed to qualify as THE earliest Ecuador piece).
LOL at that 1788 Santiago piece... as I recall, I sat watching that like a schlub as the nibbling underbidder for about 20-25 bucks? I knew it was CC at the time, didn't realize it was a known type. I believe one of your Jersey CC collector cohorts picked it? IIRC it then went for about $200 on the flip about a month later... It pays to know.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1757 Posts |
Only two specimens have ever broke the four digit barrier. Don't ask ... too long and I am too lazy to retrieve and post. Generally its $100-up depending on variety, auction setting, condition, alloy, etc.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1962 Posts |
1822 Pasto 2R writeup from a recent Ponterio auct.:
COLOMBIA. War of Independence. Pasto. 2 Reales, 1822-O.
KM-74 (Colombia); Restrepo-Type-115#1; Cal-973. Struck in Pasto Ecuador from machinery that was transported from the Colombian Mint of Popayan. With Bolivar's insurgent forces approaching the city of Popayan it became evident that the city would fall from Royalist control. Officials at the Popayan Mint loaded what machinery could be carried on the backs of mules for transport to Quito in order to prevent it from falling into Insurgent hands. Due to their size, the larger screw presses for the production of 4 and 8 reales were not able to be transported, the largest press that was able to be moved was that for the production of 2 reales. Initially the equipment was intended to be relocated to Quito where a new mint was to be established in accordance with the authorization which came on 26 December 1821. However, due to delays in transit and the dire need for coinage, the equipment was re-routed to Pasto where it was used to produce the present coin. This issue is historically very important as it not only documents important events that took place during the War of Independence, it is also technically the first coin of Ecuador and the only New World issue to use the legend in reference to the Spanish Constitution of Ferdinand VII.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1962 Posts |
Regarding contemporary counterfeit 2R (NOT the Pasto 1822 2R, just to avoid confusing the viewers at home)... Quote:
Only two specimens have ever broke the four digit barrier. Don't ask ... too long and I am too lazy to retrieve and post. Generally its $100-up depending on variety, auction setting, condition, alloy, etc. The amazing thing, though, is that almost everything you see out there is really in rather "eh" condition in terms of wear/preservation due to use or contemporary defacing, and they still go for good $$ (as you said, $100+). When you have something nice: http://prior.stacks.com/lotdetail.a...d=AN00144088 |
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Pillar of the Community
France
1591 Posts |
Thanks for that realeswatcher, I didn't saw Ponterio had one for sale recently !
That's the best explanation I found so far :)
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Replies: 16 / Views: 4,930 |
Posted 05/10/2012 9:20 pm
