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Why You Don't Need Gold (Not My Article)

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lukkyseven's Avatar
United States
880 Posts
 Posted 06/04/2012  5:13 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add lukkyseven to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
I haven't been on the CCF in quite some time. While seeing a lot of stocks that I've been interested in Dip in the past week I decided to go make my purchase today. While doing that, I noticed this article. I don't know if the link will work for everyone, so if it doesn't please let me know and I will copy/paste the article.

Now let me also say this. I won't say if I agree or disagree with the article, but I do own a few gold coins. Only because I like them though. I just remember when I was reading a lot of silver articles here they were always positive. This is just for a fresh perspective compared to the threads I remember reading here.

And lastly, it's very good to come back to the forums regardless of how it happened. I haven't bought a coin in about 9 months due to a new child. So it's time to go get something for the Dansco here soon.

**Link did not work** Article is below


After sliding 6% in May, the price of gold jumped 3.7% on Friday. Skeptics say it is a temporary rise in a longer downturn. Fans of the metal say it is the start of another glorious run.

Picking a side is pointless. Gold defies efforts to calculate its worth--or even to describe how it behaves as an investment. That means there isn't a clear reason to invest in it.

If you must own some gold to sleep better, stick with a multivitamin approach: A little bit won't hurt. A lot can prove toxic.

Gold is prone to long booms and busts. Before its latest dip, it multiplied five times in value over a decade, mocking stocks and other investments. Before that, it lost money for 20 years.

Some investors look to gold as a safe haven. It is one--but only when it wants to be. Just over two years ago, when investors learned that Greece's deficits were much larger than officials there had reported, the metal followed U.S. Treasurys higher while Greek government bonds crashed.

Yet last month, with Greece's fiscal crisis intensifying, Greek government bonds again tumbled while U.S. Treasurys rose, but this time investors dumped gold.

To study how gold behaves, we asked FactSet Research Systems to analyze the metal's short-term correlation with two other investments: the 10-year Treasury note, representing safe havens, and the Standard & Poor's 500 stock index , representing risk.

"Correlation" is a measure of how closely two assets track each other. A reading of 1.0 means they trade in lock-step, while zero means they are independent and a reading of minus-1.0 means they act like opposites.

What did FactSet find? Chaos. The correlation between gold and the 10-year Treasury has jumped above 0.6 at some points over the past five years and has fallen below minus-0.8 during others, changing direction several times. The one between gold and stocks has had similar spasms, with the highs topping 0.9.

In other words, gold might suffer from a multiple personality disorder.

Some investors say gold is a hedge against inflation. That is true of any good or service that consumers can be counted on to want in coming years, such as oil or poultry farms. Gold's wild swings have made it a poor proxy for the consumer-price index, a key inflation measure.

Perhaps that is because only 12% of gold's demand comes from industrial applications, according to the World Gold Council, a trade group. The rest comes from jewelry and investment (and the divide between those two isn't always clear).

Still others view gold as "real money" --the one thing that will hold its value if governments create so much new currency that those currencies lose their value. Taken to its logical conclusion, this means governments would eventually agree to once again use gold as the basis for their currencies, says James Swanson, chief investment strategist at MFS, a mutual-fund company.

That is a fantasy, he argues, because some powerful nations have relatively little gold and some gold-rich nations have little power.

So how much is gold really worth? With stocks, bonds, rental houses and laundromats, one way to answer that question is to compare the purchase price with expected cash flow. But gold doesn't generate any cash. Indeed, it costs something to store it.

Investors sometimes use the cost of producing the world's next ounce of gold as an approximate floor for its price. That cost is between $1,200 and $1,400 now, depending on the efficiency of the mine, reckons Michael Dudas, a mining-stock analyst at investment bank Sterne Agee. Gold sold for $1,620.50 an ounce on Friday.

There is a catch, however: The cost of mining gold has followed the price of gold higher, as mining firms have bid up machine prices and countries with plenty of gold underground have raised the royalties they charge to miners, Dudas said. If production costs are a floor for gold's price, the floor is made of straw, not concrete.

Of course, gold's price is ultimately based on supply and demand, and demand has surely soared over the past decade. Exchange-traded funds such as SPDR Gold Shares and iShares Gold Trust have made gold investing easier than ever. Gold-coin pitchmen have played off the angst and distrust left by a global financial crisis.

But ultimately, as Swanson put it, you need a psychology book rather than a calculator to decide how to trade gold, and that means you shouldn't rely on it to do anything specific.

Investors who are determined to stock up on gold following May's dip might wish to give gold stocks a look instead. Year to date, gold's price is up 3.5%, but the Market Vectors Gold Miners ETF has fallen 9.4%.

Adrian Day, an Annapolis, Md., money manager overseeing $170 million, said gold miners look unusually cheap relative to the size of their gold reserves. Joseph Foster, manager of the Van Eck International Investors Gold fund, can place fund assets in either gold or mining shares. He said he heavily favors the latter now.

Foster's top holdings include RandGold Resources and New Gold. Sterne Agee's Dudas issued buy recommendations on Newmont Mining and Gold Resource last month.

For investors who won't feel comfortable without having some physical gold within easy reach, one last piece of advice: Forget about Krugerrands. Buy your spouse something expensive, lovely and high-karat.

That way, even if gold disappoints, at least someone will be happy.

Jack Hough is a columnist for SmartMoney.com.


Edited by lukkyseven
06/04/2012 5:50 pm
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Namachieli's Avatar
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 Posted 06/04/2012  5:32 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Namachieli to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
It requires a login.
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macmercury's Avatar
United States
5832 Posts
 Posted 06/04/2012  5:41 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add macmercury to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
ING Sharebuilder login...

Lucky7,

Can you paste the article here instead!
Thanks
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lukkyseven's Avatar
United States
880 Posts
 Posted 06/04/2012  5:50 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add lukkyseven to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
There ya go :)
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Ed_B's Avatar
United States
4008 Posts
 Posted 06/04/2012  6:01 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Ed_B to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Typical article on gold written by someone who is probably much more familiar with the paper investments than the real ones.


Quote:
Gold defies efforts to calculate its worth--or even to describe how it behaves as an investment. That means there isn't a clear reason to invest in it.

If that is how the author wishes to read the situation, fine by me. The fact that he has not participated in the +600% rise in gold over the past 11 years could lead one to doubt his expertise in the matter.
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macmercury's Avatar
United States
5832 Posts
 Posted 06/04/2012  6:17 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add macmercury to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply


Trust your own instinct! Diversify! Read and take advises to heart and analyze it yourself a few times a year.

Look at most of these analysts position, they are still analyzing today.
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chris12018's Avatar
United States
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 Posted 06/04/2012  9:13 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add chris12018 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Interesting read. Thank You
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traevin's Avatar
United States
1454 Posts
 Posted 06/04/2012  9:22 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add traevin to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
If that is how the author wishes to read the situation, fine by me. The fact that he has not participated in the +600% rise in gold over the past 11 years could lead one to doubt his expertise in the matter.


Sure. If you completely ignore the passing of a full generation when gold absolutely sieved value for TWENTY years, as the article plainly stated. Many investors from that era probably will never live long enough to recoup their losses. If one bought near the top of the previous bull run, gold still hasn't paid off for them, nor has it come even close to breaking even. So I totally agree with the article. Gold, and PMs in general, are a huge gamble, if one expects to reap some future reward from buying into this asset class. I know this isn't the popular view around here, but a dose of reality is good for investors to digest on occasion.


Why-You-Don't-Need-Gold-Not-My-Article
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sel_69l's Avatar
Australia
21788 Posts
 Posted 06/04/2012  10:54 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add sel_69l to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Now is the time to buy Pt instead! The bullion price of Pt is normally much higher than Au.
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Merc Man's Avatar
United States
561 Posts
 Posted 06/05/2012  11:16 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Merc Man to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks for sharing lukkyseven. That was a very interesting read. Nice chart traevin, you always want to be buying when everyone else is selling and selling when everyone else is buying. I seem to be doing a lot of buying right now though.
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Ed_B's Avatar
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4008 Posts
 Posted 06/05/2012  11:58 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Ed_B to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Sure. If you completely ignore the passing of a full generation when gold absolutely sieved value for TWENTY years, as the article plainly stated.

Man, what an amazing time to be buying slowly over time, though. Imagine being able to but gold at cheap prices for 20 years while you build your hoard. This is a negative? Nope, sorry, it's not.
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coinwatch's Avatar
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808 Posts
 Posted 06/06/2012  02:04 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add coinwatch to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Imagine being able to but gold at cheap prices for 20 years while you build your hoard.


The problem for both sides of this argument is that hindsight is 20/20. During those years where gold languished in investment purgatory, there were indisputably better investment opportunities elsewhere. And, the scale of fiscal excesses and gross negligence that threatens today's fragile fiat economy were not yet in play, let alone imagined, in the most fevered central banker's head. Yes, the real money faithful who correctly foresaw the inevitable problems that would emerge in the wake of the Nixon Shock would be the ones to faithfully build their gold stacks during these years. However, given the opportunity to do it all over again, with the information available to me at the time, I'd be dishonest to suggest that I'd be stacking gold instead of playing the successful equities of the past twenty years.

If I fault myself on anything, it would be not second-guessing my incorrect evaluation of the importance of gold and silver in the wake of the dot com bust and our emerging post-9/11 world. The rules were changing; the last semblances of rational fiscal and monetary policy were vanishing in plain sight. Unfortunately, the normalcy bias is very real and very powerful. I'm just glad I got on board when I did.
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traevin's Avatar
United States
1454 Posts
 Posted 06/06/2012  02:55 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add traevin to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
If I fault myself on anything, it would be not second-guessing my incorrect evaluation of the importance of gold and silver in the wake of the dot com bust and our emerging post-9/11 world.


I made the same mistake, CW. And I knew the winds of change were blowing. There were plenty of signs but I foolishly ignored them. Everyone saw how the Iraqi war was draining our coffers and raising the debt ceiling year after year. Coupled with Afghanistan, the emergence of China and India's industrial growth, and the erosion of our manufacturing base, and so many other factors, everything pointed to a major rise in PMs.

I did buy 14K rounds of ammo before the price tripled, though. Not a total loss.
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Spikey Norman's Avatar
Ireland
131 Posts
 Posted 06/06/2012  06:42 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Spikey Norman to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Hmmmm.... for someone who states
Quote:
Picking a side is pointless.
they sure seem to manage just that themselves with this article that imo shows no balance whatsoever.

Norm
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bekiz's Avatar
Japan
666 Posts
 Posted 06/06/2012  06:59 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add bekiz to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
For one who compares value of gold I'd suggest taking not the time frame to support his view on metal (no matter bearish or bullish) but get a time frame of let's say last 100 years. In order to compare to pick other liquid assets like: USD, loaf of bread, gas(kerosene), etc. and put them all together in one chart.

I do agree that picking last 11 years as a matter of prediction what will be during the next 10years - is not wise. As well I agree that picking 80-s as trend of a poor performance of gold - wrong as well.

Take a bigger time period ... last 50 years, 100 years, 150 years ...
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barryg's Avatar
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5856 Posts
 Posted 06/08/2012  09:38 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add barryg to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Take a bigger time period ... last 50 years, 100 years, 150 years ...

I'm not sure that would work either, since prior to the 1970s we were on the gold standard and the price of gold was fixed.
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