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Iso/F-Stop/Shutter Speed Relationships

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Pillar of the Community
aladinslamp's Avatar
United States
3076 Posts
 Posted 06/08/2012  01:59 am Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add aladinslamp to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
Taking a picture is as simple as clicking the button, OPPS
I didn't have the right setting on these multitude of camera settings and computer orientated cameras settings in which the camera does all the thinking for me.....
So I thought until I stared taking pictures....Soon I realized what this camera thought I wanted was not what I wanted in the final out take of the resulting picture....
We have had to take control....by switching to manual mode...Many of you know what I mean.....
The result is....so many varibles...I just want to take a decent pic of my coin... IS my coin a worn out old 100 year old penny or a new DEEP proof coin...?
After re-reading so many1,000 threads here "PRAISE THE LORD" so much valuable info..Here.I have thought to condense this info...into a simpler EQUATION, or idea, in which there is a basic fundamental..info..to coin photography....
The first thing is....WE don't/can't afford L series glass...my meaning is we can not all afford expensive lenses..
Expensive lenses will always give you a great picture...
Which does not mean you can't have great quality pics if you can not afford the top dollar lenses....
RAY does a great job of showing us how stupidly cheap lenses can (permit me to say hear "old Quality Lenses" of the past} be used to take great photographs....
Note also these are not point and shoot lenses or cameras,, SuperDave has shown us TOO MANY point and shoot =cameras that can take phenominal photos, ---------------------------------------
Now the Breaking point..the Condensing....
While the old or new could or would/did take great photo's.
They all had certain fields or peramiters/relationships/varibles which have not been fully explained. ..For EXAMPLE and you all can fully jump me...F stop/////
the F number usually refers to the best setting for clearity determined by the quality of the lens....My meaning is simple, while most lenses use F/6 or F/8 to be the premium F/level ,
ANY lens allows much lower or much higher settings....
The reason is, Lenses are made for a variety of users some close up some far....and the same reasoning is for the lens makes,,,,
But What I am talking about.......
is about the use of coin shooting....Despite if you have a great or crappy lens........
There are very few varibles.......SORRY IT TOOK THIS LONG TO GET TO THE POINT......
LIGHT....the fundamental preface of capturing a picture....Every one here reading this thread already knows how it plays on the final out come...
What I mean to say or Condense is,,,
The QUALITY of lens is important, but even lesser lenses still capture the photo.
Quality is in the capturing of the photo......
the greater the lens (money) but is it really
the fact is it only requires 8MP or better to capture a photo....
But the varibles of ISO, F/stop and shutter speed MAKE ALL THE DIFFERENCE....for the final out come on your camera's final out come...
WHY is there such a variable? coins can come in new DMPL MS70 to old
AG3 1799.............they can not be photographed with the same techinques......do to reflectivity...
My point is and will be continued. is...... AS Dave and Ray know, is to bring out the best shot with any lens you have....While we here review some of the great lenses...THIS IS ABOUT
The a RELATIONSHIP.. with the ISO,,,,,,,,,F/stop and shutter speed which result in good and great/poor photos'''and WHY....
These few principles.....determine all of the out come...
Step on me or lets hear your thoughts...G
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SsuperDdave's Avatar
United States
23522 Posts
 Posted 06/08/2012  07:24 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SsuperDdave to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
tl;dr below - better to read the whole thing.

All of these factors do exactly the same thing - control how much light hits the sensor of the camera. In a perfect world, there would be only one setting: "Light level."

Some of them, though, have a subtle bearing on a shot which the others don't necessarily provide.

Aperture controls light. The larger the aperture (smaller number), the more light hits the sensor. It also controls depth of field. A larger aperture gives a shallower depth of field. If that depth of field is important to your shot - as it is for the purposes of coin photography - you have to use the other two factors to get enough light onto the coin. So, for coin photography, you need to find the largest aperture that will give you acceptable depth of field (you use the largest-possible so as to minimize the effect on how much light hits the lens). For dSLR photography, that "magic number" is about f/8. For point-and-shoot photography, more like f/4-f/5./6.

ISO controls light. The faster the ISO speed (higher number), the more light hits the lens. This is usually a factor in sports photography or other times when you want to "freeze" fast action - using a faster ISO lets you use a much faster exposure to get enough light, and those really fast exposures are what you need to freeze action. The tradeoff of faster ISO is greater noise, which we do_not_want in coin photography. So, we want to use the slowest-possible ISO (lowest number) we can in order to minimize noise. In the real world, the average dSLR will let you use ISO 400 all day, and most are fine at ISO 800. That ability gives you much greater latitude for lighting - you don't need as much light, nor does it need to be as direct. Very few point-and-shoots can use ISO400 without showing visible noise; indeed, only the best of them will allow ISO200.

Exposure controls light. The slower the exposure, the more light. Plain and simple. In regular photography as well as coin photography, you tend to want the fastest exposure possible, to minimize the chance of shake affecting your picture. This is the simplest setting - all it does is change how much light you see - but it's the most important for coin photography.

In coin photography, aperture is dictated by how much depth of field you want. ISO is dictated by the abilities of your camera to control noise. For both, you want the single "best" number that gives you what you want while minimizing the tradeoffs. Your only way of making up for the limitations imposed by that is exposure.

Your "best practice" as a coin photographer is to settle on a single aperture and ISO setting for a given camera/lens combo, and vary exposure and/or lighting to get the shot you want. Now, for some of us mounting and vibration control are limitations and those limitations force you to use more light so you need a faster exposure to avoid vibration. Heck, when I'm doing magnifying shots, even with equipment designed to shoot coins at magnification, a truck passing by on the road 100ft away can affect the shot.

There's a reason I spend so much time harping on solid camera mounts.

The more light you can bring to bear without blowing out features of the coin, the more leeway you have to play with the three settings discussed here. That could be a lot of light - some of my best shots were done with 150 watts of halogen light, enough to give me a tan while I was shooting. As long as you're not turning your coin into some sort of Archimedes-esque reflector weapon, more light is always better. It's easier to subtract light than it is to add some, especially if it requires interrupting a photo session for a trip to the store.

There's a reason why I always harp about quality lighting, and why Ray has spent as much time experimenting with lighting covers as he has lenses.

Tl;dr: Your camera decides ISO and Aperture. Exposure is your friend.
Valued Member
United States
123 Posts
 Posted 06/08/2012  09:25 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add John Bonzo to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
ISO - how sensitive your camera is to capturing light

Aperture - how much light enters the camera at a time

Shutter Speed - the length of time that light is allowed to enter the camera

These three things have to work together to allow an acceptable amount of light to be captured by the camera (called Exposure).

In coin photography, you will normally want a low ISO (low sensitivity to light - to reduce noise as aladinslamp said) since you can allow light to enter for a longer period of time (slower shutter speed) since your coin is not moving. This is also why a tripod helps - to prevent movement.
Pillar of the Community
aladinslamp's Avatar
United States
3076 Posts
 Posted 06/11/2012  02:47 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add aladinslamp to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks John for your post, But My Post is far deeper in reasoning than simply adjusting any of these three PRIMARY attributes of the camera....IT is why I wrote this post
TO CLARIFY to many readers on this forum,
One can see clearly if the ISO goes up so does the light with no changes to the other two, Also of the ISO remains the same by changing the shutter speed, the light is brighter or darker....The F /Stop does essentially the same in some regards........As it seems to influence what the ISO and shutter speed RESULTS are.....
For most applications....it very simple,
But for coins its new world for most, and I feel, the link of understandings has not quite been fully spoken..
the theory yes,,,And I'm not demeaning anyone as it has been
implyed for many months/years....ISO/F/stop and shutter speed are the key ingredients TO WHAT END...?
If you simply change any of these YES the combinati0on results in the light changes in the out come of the picture......
THE REAL ISSUE is the DEPT of FIELD, Which Ray and Dave
have been talking about, in the out come of the lenses capabilities... AS Dave NOTED ABOVE, the out come of the variailes are not simply the lessening or brightening
of the object, but the sharpness of detail.....in the final picture...some must stack pictures to combine the fact that the field of focus of the center and the rim of coins are not fully in focus, so to produce the full in focus effect they stack the photo's to produce the coins true picture...
This post is about the total concept in which, coin photography is based, in general this forum answers the questions of what you are working with, and how to get the most of it,,, My post is simply trying to condense all I have learned , for coin photography, to the bare elements of importance...not the lens, which is significant, but to the why of "old glass or new", and the specific reason of depth field in the macro world or old glass under and used with the bellows....Think about it....
Pillar of the Community
aladinslamp's Avatar
United States
3076 Posts
 Posted 06/14/2012  02:15 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add aladinslamp to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Think about it, why is old glass thought of or usable
in these times?/ while most of don't want to spend a $1,000 plus for the new glass high tech lenses, which are good. for there own purpose.. shooting coins and its dept of field requirments are much different....This is the reason I started the other thread.. The overall, Issue is not just the final out come of the picture,BUT IT IS,, in the end, the outcome of the settings for your particular camera. Why does old glass shine?
Pillar of the Community
aladinslamp's Avatar
United States
3076 Posts
 Posted 06/22/2012  01:58 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add aladinslamp to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Without RESURECTING old threads....Which are truely great if you have had someone let you know what threads to link you all to, to the Meat and Potatoes of coin photography,,,Which are spread about even in this forum, usually generally answered due to the specific nature of the camera and make...
My question or resolve is to take the make of the camera out of the equation, so as to understand the fundamentals,

And its not like this or other forums do not address something like this.. but yet a barage of the same questions of basic photography always imply's itself on these pages...
we need to explore on the higher level....
of what the LENS ratings imply...Mostly the F/stop...
The reason any lighting can be manipulated is due to the three basic attributes of the camera functions...
ISO, F/stop, ans shutter speed...
These are the basics which all lenses function, and they may be LESS the quality of GLASS or better, still have
the same attributes of performance....
It seams in general one can simply higher the ISO to improve the light, or brightness....or to simply adjust the shutter speed to do the same...
yet in reallity...the purpose of coin shooting is:
to capture the correct appearance of the coin in hand....
Thats why we are here......
REMEMBER, I have said......these are principles
NOT INCLUDING lenses or there premium SPECIALTY values /MACRO's or such...For a reason.....you do not need to spend the money to go brezerk on any lens as long as you know what kind of lens you need to do what you what to do...Most advertize all in wonder lenses to fulfill your need....
Most of of us "here know" with the above info the basics are crucial to be able understand the fine points...Much "old glass" can be purchased by any one not even knowing what the are needing to know...
and its a steal in quality for the price!!
More later.....
Valued Member
Dino's Avatar
United States
180 Posts
 Posted 07/21/2012  11:06 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Dino to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Been playing with my Kodaik Z4 point and shoot for about 2 hours, using a shop light and older tripod.....complete strike out. I did find this thread helpful and I'll try and drag the camera out again tomorrow.
Pillar of the Community
aladinslamp's Avatar
United States
3076 Posts
 Posted 07/22/2012  01:27 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add aladinslamp to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks for your reply...I had to reread as are the fundamental points of getting a GREAT picture...everything
else is about normal....The true purpose of this thread was to find out for "coin photography"..what these 3 points..
main influences are and why.....
Rereading, SD has explained the what and why.....
"primary point" is the depth of
field..where the quality of definition is equal across the
entire coin..strong center strong edges..
While point and shoot camera's do
not address the depth of field issue, your combinations of the 3 points above WILL help you get a fine picture...I still have a 2004 canon power shot pro I was going to throw away until I found this foreum....I used there knowledge to
get amazing results....G
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