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Grading Toned 1-Cent Coins

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SPP-Ottawa's Avatar
Canada
10460 Posts
 Posted 06/15/2012  1:04 pm Show Profile   Check SPP-Ottawa's eBay Listings Bookmark this topic Add SPP-Ottawa to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
In my opinion, one downfall that Canadian TPG companies have, is that if a mint state 1-cent coin does not have more than 25% original red colour (lustre), then it is automatically assigned a grade MS-63 Brown or worse. Rare is the coin graded MS-64 Lustrous Brown. Whereas one aspect I do like of PCGS is that they look at the surfaces through the toning, and sometimes even take the toning as part of the eye-appeal, so grades MS-65 brown, are not uncommon. I guess my question to this grading forum is, should ICCS apply their technical grading to toned 1-cents, as they do for silver coins?

That said, I digress. This is a coin I picked up recently at the Coin Expo in Toronto earlier this month. The surfaces (fields and devices) are absolutely perfect (MS-65 in my opinion), and the toning is gorgeous, yet, there it was in an ICCS MS-63 brown holder with a $5 price tag on it. I snapped it up for $4, not because of the grade, but the bright green-blue-violet toning blew me away (I have a small side collection of mint-state gem-toned Canadian small cents).

Note that the colour play on toned coins is very difficult to photograph, and frankly, I am horrible at it - but this was my best shot at capturing the colours.

Grading-Toned-1-Cent-Coins

Here is the same coin, photographed perpendicular to the surface, with flat light.

Grading-Toned-1-Cent-Coins
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Edited by SPP-Ottawa
06/15/2012 1:06 pm
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Crockett's Avatar
Canada
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 Posted 06/15/2012  2:42 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Crockett to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I have a 59 that looks the same.

I too tried to get the toning in pics, It has amazing colour tones you just can't get in a photo.

Very nice coin

HH
Dave
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Canadian-Banknotes's Avatar
Canada
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 Posted 06/15/2012  6:45 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Canadian-Banknotes to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Note that the colour play on toned coins is very difficult to photograph, and frankly, I am horrible at it - but this was my best shot at capturing the colours.

I am by no means an expert on coin photography, and definitely not when taking pictures of toned coins.

However, this is usually what I try to do.

http://www.australian-threepence.co...d-coins.html
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Coin Chick's Avatar
Canada
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 Posted 06/15/2012  11:25 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Coin Chick to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Gorgeous coin. I wish there were more shows in my area. I would have loved a chance to get your coin!!
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timnic44's Avatar
Canada
535 Posts
 Posted 06/17/2012  8:45 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add timnic44 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Very nice coin....I have a beautifully toned high grade 1945 cent but after looking at Canadian Banknotes link, I may try to get some pics of it.
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enworb's Avatar
Australia
4411 Posts
 Posted 06/17/2012  9:10 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add enworb to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I agree that a beautiful coin such as yours that has toning should be able to make MS-65 but unfortunately doesn't quite often.

On this occasion it was pretty good for you that it graded low. $4 for a coin that nice is a steal!
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JeyRey2000's Avatar
Canada
743 Posts
 Posted 09/21/2012  7:55 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add JeyRey2000 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I am in process of picking up a Canada large cent graded MS65 Brown by ICG. Is the market that inflated for red coins vs brown coins? What would the approximate value of MS65 Brown be in relation to MS65 Red? Let say the coin is 1920.

Thanks
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SPP-Ottawa's Avatar
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10460 Posts
 Posted 09/21/2012  8:57 pm  Show Profile   Check SPP-Ottawa's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add SPP-Ottawa to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Short answer is yes. There is a strong premium for full (95-100%) red coins. Eye-appeal plays an important role in the price as well. For large cents that are MS-65 Red and free of fingerprints or carbon spots, catalogue or Trends prices really are irrelevant. If it is an auction, it is about who loves the coin the most, and who is the last bidder with their card in the air. I have paid well over Trends for some small cents, that are super tough to find 100% red (like a 1946 or 1953 SF cent).
"Discovery follows discovery, each both raising and answering questions, each ending a long search, and each providing the new instruments for a new search." -- J. Robert Oppenheimer

Content of this post is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 3.0 Unported License. See: http://creativecommons.org/licenses...0/deed.en_US

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enworb's Avatar
Australia
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 Posted 09/21/2012  9:41 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add enworb to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Most, not all, collectors would choose a red coin over a brown one anyday if the price and grade was the same. Because red is the preference for most people it naturally attracts a much higher premium.
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JeyRey2000's Avatar
Canada
743 Posts
 Posted 09/21/2012  10:13 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add JeyRey2000 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I appreciate the advice. My collection is pretty new so I am only now starting to see the value in higher grade collecting. At first I was trying to fill holes but now seem to be wanting more and more MS grade coins to increase the value of mylarge and small cent collection. I guess I will have to keep an eye out for deals and random finds to get lucky.

Thanks
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BadThad's Avatar
United States
19964 Posts
 Posted 10/02/2012  12:10 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add BadThad to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Beautiful toner!

Where's the other side?
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SPP-Ottawa's Avatar
Canada
10460 Posts
 Posted 10/02/2012  12:22 am  Show Profile   Check SPP-Ottawa's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add SPP-Ottawa to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The other side, is well, normal. By the way, I was drooling over your toned coins that you posted on Coin Talk...
"Discovery follows discovery, each both raising and answering questions, each ending a long search, and each providing the new instruments for a new search." -- J. Robert Oppenheimer

Content of this post is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 3.0 Unported License. See: http://creativecommons.org/licenses...0/deed.en_US

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BadToTheBone's Avatar
United States
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 Posted 10/02/2012  01:23 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add BadToTheBone to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Very nice toned Coin.
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doubleeagle59's Avatar
Canada
2495 Posts
 Posted 10/28/2012  11:02 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add doubleeagle59 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Here's one I've recently acquired.

PCGS 1920 ms64Br 1c.

The true colours are as vibrant as the picture.

Grading-Toned-1-Cent-Coins
Edited by doubleeagle59
10/28/2012 11:06 pm
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Canadian-Banknotes's Avatar
Canada
4944 Posts
 Posted 10/28/2012  11:59 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Canadian-Banknotes to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Very Nice doubleeagle!
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SPP-Ottawa's Avatar
Canada
10460 Posts
 Posted 10/29/2012  01:31 am  Show Profile   Check SPP-Ottawa's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add SPP-Ottawa to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Gorgeous coin!!
"Discovery follows discovery, each both raising and answering questions, each ending a long search, and each providing the new instruments for a new search." -- J. Robert Oppenheimer

Content of this post is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 3.0 Unported License. See: http://creativecommons.org/licenses...0/deed.en_US

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