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 Replies: 15 / Views: 1,644 |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2269 Posts |
Today I had a good day with silver. I was able to pick up 3 silver 1 ounce bars, 1 ASE, and 1 Philharmoninker. I started to talk to my dealer on what he thinks of the current downward trend for silver and gold. His first reaction was that the PM market is being manipulated. In the past I have done plenty of searches about the manipulation of the silver and gold market and the information is endless. My dealer believes that because of the upcoming election, there are some who want to keep PM low. I am going to say that I like to do my own research before I come to any kind of conclusion, but I have no problem listening to others. He also told me he believes silver should be nearing $100.00 and ounce and Gold at $3000 an ounce. He also told me that one of his major clients for silver is an investment banker at JP Morgan who also believes in the same theory. So I ask others what they think of my conversation with my dealer. Do any believe the market is being manipulated because it is an election year and is $100 silver or $3000 Gold a real possibility? He also told me that this recent trend should be viewed as a buying opportunity and that after the election, don't be surprised to see silver climbing in price. |
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Pillar of the Community
Japan
666 Posts |
Banker with JPM who buys silver (if he really exists) pretty good indicator.
I am buying no matter what happens ... hope that next 20 years will be good for PM stackers.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
808 Posts |
I'll keep my reply brief.   |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4897 Posts |
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Do any believe the market is being manipulated because it is an election year No, I believe the market is ALWAYS manipulated.. Quote:
is $100 silver or $3000 Gold a real possibility?
Yes! When? Who the *$#@@! knows!? All that said.... Quote:
I am buying no matter what happens ... hope that next 20 years will be good for PM stackers |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3670 Posts |
Silver is too conductive to not be a key factor in much future tech....
So like many here I think the long term is bright for pmz, but the short not so much, minus stocking which the window has been open for months....
When people get tired of bank BS and the stock market they will turn to gold.Always have, always will....
Didn't Texas University buy enough gold to rival some small country's back when it was way higher a year or so back, via getting out of the stock market? I recall a thread here about that, reason I ask....
Reason I mention that, I was listening to sports talk and they were going on how Texas Tech was cancelling their season opener against a small school, as ESPN had put them on the Longhorn network. Another-words they are not gonna play on a rivals network, and boost their pockets and I can't blame them a bit myself....
That lead to someone saying they should call it the big 12 network, and they asked why don't they?
Easy, Texas does not wanna share the money. And if they sold all that gold at today's prices they would lose millions. But, if they set on it for the next ten years as many of you mentioned, they will do fine I figure....
Edited by Silverhawk74
06/24/2012 02:56 am
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Pillar of the Community
United States
863 Posts |
Its hard to stack. I can't find anywhere that will sell at spot
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Valued Member
Australia
145 Posts |
Enjoy the lower prices atm, as 26-27 you'll pay 30 on average still, that is still spot price in a sence.
I payed 33 oz when it was sitting at 30$
Edited by lostsean
06/24/2012 08:32 am
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Pillar of the Community
Australia
7096 Posts |
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Its hard to stack. I can't find anywhere that will sell at spot
Cant blame them not selling at spot. Would you sell your stack at spot today? I know I wouldn't  |
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Valued Member
United States
275 Posts |
History is the major factor in the manipulation of silver. All one has to do is google the history of the value of it to see this. Look back to the 60s. Then tell me what is the pattern. Will history repeat itself again? I think so.
I may wait too long but waiting I am.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2130 Posts |
With elections in the near future, I believe pms, stocks, oil, etc... are all manipulated. I will keep buying as long as I can maintain my average cost per oz. I plan on being around long enough to see the dramatic climb in pms. When that happens I will flood the market.  |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4008 Posts |
Yes, both the silver and gold markets seem to be manipulated by the big bullion banks, governments, and probably others via a variety of techniques. Naked shorting seems to be one of the worst offenders. A short is "naked" when there is no underlying asset being borrowed or repaid as part of the short position. It is strictly a money for money deal wherein there is no intent to ever deliver or receive any asset other than money. Naked shorting is prohibited by various SEC rules in the USA but it seems to go on anyway.
Something that really complicates the precious metals markets is the huge volume of "paper" gold and silver, usually as futures contracts. Since all paper products can be easily and profitably manipulated, it is a pretty safe assumption that this is occurring.
Thanks to the use of leverage with these paper products, it is possible to buy, sell, and hold paper positions that, in theory, represent LARGE amounts of metals. Estimates of the leverage vary but 100 to 1 seems to be a common estimate. If so, then for every oz. of gold or silver out there, there will be 100 ozs. of paper gold and silver traded.
Since the prices of physical gold and silver are often defined by the paper prices, manipulating the paper products usually results in manipulated prices for the physical metals. This price interaction can separate sometimes as well, such as when huge volumes of paper metals are dumped onto the market in a very short time period, depressing the price to the point that those who hold physical metal will refuse to sell it at the depressed paper price. Eventually, the prices will rise again and overcome this temporary price deviation. Lately, it seems that more and more paper metal dumping results in less and less price suppression, so this price manipulation scheme may not last much longer.
Some would say that we have long-term price deviation already with both physical gold and silver prices depressed considerably below their true value and I find it difficult to argue with this position.
As to governments, they are clearly interested in maintaining the value of their fiat currencies as best they can and see gold and silver as viable competitors to these currencies. There is quite a bit of history in this, probably from the time that gold and silver backed paper money was first printed and the government set the prices of each. It seems likely that the big banks and the government are colluding in order to keep PM prices low and currency prices higher than they would be without PM price manipulation. Could this explain why the banks never seem to get into trouble for PM market manipulation? You bet it could!
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Valued Member
United States
310 Posts |
Now, I think the PM's are manipulated to a point, but they shouldn't be able to hold the price down if there's more demand out there. There's a limited supply of PM's. If people were out demanding the supply, shorting wouldn't work.
I actually don't think the demand for silver is there yet. It MAY ratchet up in the future for industrial needs. I don't buy the conductivity argument yet. Yes, silver is the most conductive metal, but it's also more volatile. corrosion and such hurts that conductivity. That's why Copper, Aluminum, and Gold, are used more. Gold is used in most hi tech, and reliable systems because it doesn't react to the environment. Copper is only 9% less conductive than silver, and the cost savings using it instead of silver far outweighs that 9%. Gold is roughly 35% less conductive than silver, but it doesn't corrode, so it gets the node in aero-tech, space missions, etc.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
863 Posts |
Yes there is a limited supply of pm but there is also a limited demand for actual pm at the moment.
At the same time there is virtually an unlimited supply of paper pm
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Valued Member
United States
310 Posts |
"Yes there is a limited supply of pm but there is also a limited demand for actual pm at the moment.
At the same time there is virtually an unlimited supply of paper pm"
This is my point. I always her there's a shortage of physical Silver, but too me, it doesn't seem like it. If people were demanding physical silver the price would be going up regardless of whatever was happening with the paper securities. To me this suggests to me that the silver market is saturated at the moment, not under supplied. You can't manipulate the market down if there are always people demanding more of it.
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Bedrock of the Community
Australia
21788 Posts |
There will always be speculators and trends pushing the market UP and DOWN. If you are a short term investor these influences are studied closely.
If you are a very long term investor, best to look at long term trends and get a feeling of how the World economy will fare over 10 + years.
If you want to get a profit on a buy / sell by the end of the week, perhaps the horses are a better bet, where the profit margins are much thinner.
Hi Ho Siiiiiilveeeeerrrrrr! I need to invest in some hay, then go out and feed some to my hay burner. Can you buy hay futures?
Edited by sel_69l
06/25/2012 02:56 am
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4008 Posts |
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If people were demanding physical silver the price would be going up regardless of whatever was happening with the paper securities. Considering that the price of silver was $5 an oz. as recently as late 2003, I would say that it HAS gone up... a lot. Imagine buying a monster box of ASEs for $2500! As a small silver buyer, I haven't had any trouble buying coins and bars when I wanted to buy them. Industrial buyers might have a different story, though. Buying in quantity can be difficult even when small amounts are easy to come by. We'll know what silver is really worth when those who need it badly start having trouble finding it. KA-CHING!  |
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Replies: 15 / Views: 1,644 |
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Posted 06/24/2012 12:38 am
