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 Replies: 15 / Views: 2,259 |
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Valued Member
Canada
331 Posts |
Hi All, I recently had the chance to visit Citadel Coins in Halifax, and I decided I would add to my silver dollar collection with an inexpensive pickup. I narrowed my selection down to two 1939 dollars, one graded MS63 by the owner, the other graded MS63 by ICCS. I decided after looking the two of them over, that I preferred the one that was not graded by ICCS in terms of condition and appearance. This is the one I bought: http://www.ebay.com/itm/1939-Canada...em564405afabThese are the photos of my new coin that I've just taken:   And this is the one I passed over: http://www.ebay.com/itm/1939-Canada...em564ab383d4I'm not sure I would have been offered an equivalent price in store, but initially I was told I could buy either at the same price, then I ended up with mine for $30. So I have two questions, being new at grading and buying TPG coins: 1) Do you think my coin is MS63? 2) Would you have bought the TPG example, or did what I did (assuming you felt the non-TPG coin was the higher grade)? I'm interested to hear people's opinions! Thanks - LB |
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Valued Member
Canada
475 Posts |
IMHO I would have personally gone for the ICCS coin just because of the colours. You are OK either way as beauty is in the eyes of the beholder . NOt a real expensive purchase that would get you in big trouble. Nice dollars!
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
36841 Posts |
The coin appears to have been circulated. I'm seeing rub on all the high points.
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Valued Member
 Canada
331 Posts |
Thanks for the input so far. I am not an experienced grader, but I'm trying to learn. When I picked up the coin that I eventually bought, I thought "there is no way this is MS". Then I picked up the ICCS MS63 coin, and it looks very similar to mine. There appears to be a similar amount of "rub" as you put it on the eyebrow and cheek, and yet ICCS, a notably conservative TPG of Canadian coins, has declared it to be MS63. With the two coins in hand, they appeared to be of very similar grade. Ultimately it was the colour and pattern of toning that led me to choose the one I did. I've linked directly to the full size shot of the ICCS coin: http://i1090.photobucket.com/albums...CCSMS631.jpgIf anyone can chime in as to whether/why these coins are graded appropriately I'd appreciate the feedback and learning experience. Thanks! |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
36841 Posts |
The gray color on all the high points is a break in the luster caused by wear, most notably on George. Don't get me wrong, it is a great looking coin and I think what you paid for it was a decent price. I just would not pay MS price for one like that if offered to me at MS price. As for the TPG's, I have disagreed with them many times before. When buying slabbed coins I use what is on the holder as a guide and then judge the coin myself. There are both over graded and under graded coins in slabs. You have to cherry pick. |
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Bedrock of the Community
Canada
10743 Posts |
This coin to me doesn't look MS but neither does the ICCS coin, high AU at best.
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Valued Member
Canada
331 Posts |
Quote:
This coin to me doesn't look MS but neither does the ICCS coin, high AU at best. Thanks for the replies. As I said, I'm new at grading, so when I saw the ICCS coin in MS63, and this one looked similar in grade, I assumed they both must be MS63 (also that is the dealer grade given). I could understand these coins being off by a minor grade or two, depending on the grader's opinion, but how is it possible that ICCS can grade a coin as being in mint state when it isn't? And not just MS60, but MS63! Is it the opinion of most people here that both of these coins are high(est) AU? I understand that if the darkening on the king's eyebrow and cheek is due to wear, these coins are therefore definitively lower than MS in grade. Is anyone of the opinion that ICCS has correctly graded this coin MS63 (and then maybe my coin is MS as well)? Just trying to understand how a respected TPG can be so far off from what seems to be the consensus here. Thanks! |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
36841 Posts |
Quote:
This coin to me doesn't look MS but neither does the ICCS coin, high AU at best. I agree, I'm thinking AU-55 or maybe even AU-58. I think the TPG gave this a better grade because of color and eye appeal. Hard to say what the graders at ICCS saw. All we can do is point out what we see. |
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Valued Member
Canada
475 Posts |
The ICCS coin is a solid 63, I would not worry about it!
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Moderator
 Canada
10460 Posts |
Both coins look very similar in grade. Both are also weakly struck. Neither are true investment coins, so it boils down to eye appeal, and buying the coin you like.
"Discovery follows discovery, each both raising and answering questions, each ending a long search, and each providing the new instruments for a new search." -- J. Robert OppenheimerContent of this post is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 3.0 Unported License. See: http://creativecommons.org/licenses...0/deed.en_USMy eBay store
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
3692 Posts |
Sorry, these are not mint-state.
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Moderator
Canada
10460 Posts |
Yes, they are. They are both weakly struck, so there is loss of detail in the high points. Here is another example of a silver George VI coin, weakly struck; click on the obverse picture for 1940. "Discovery follows discovery, each both raising and answering questions, each ending a long search, and each providing the new instruments for a new search." -- J. Robert OppenheimerContent of this post is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 3.0 Unported License. See: http://creativecommons.org/licenses...0/deed.en_USMy eBay store
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Valued Member
Canada
475 Posts |
It is apparent that grading is in the eyes of the beholder I guess. Not really though as there are certain standards today that are accepted. What I am really trying to say is that a lot of numismatists today simply cannot grade and that includes the Grading services. On this post I agree with SPP the coin (ICCS) is indeed mintstate 63. Fourty years of experience tells me so! Two of the hardest Canadian series to gradeare the fifty cents of George VI and the Silver Dollars of George VI. Weak strikes and worn dies along with amount of bag marks and die cracking/polishing makes them a real challenge!
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
36841 Posts |
I think what is more apparent is the fact it is hard to come up with an exact grade by looking at photos. Having the coin in hand allows you to turn it at different angles to see what does not show up in a photo. Lighting both hides and accentuates different problems. Experience definitely helps but grading will always be subjective and three different people can come up with three different answers. Guess that's why the TPG's have more than one grader grade each coin. |
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Valued Member
Canada
475 Posts |
Indian Gold I agree that is why we call it the "GRADE DEBATE"  ! |
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
972 Posts |
The dollar you purchased is of lower grade than the ICCS dollar. It is still a very nice dollar that I would grade IMO AU55-58. It's good that your trying to find the differences in the two coins to improve your grading skills. You bought the coin that appealed to you the most and that's fine on inexpensive coins. Always take the graded coin over the ungraded coin if you want to ensure you get the best coin, until your confident with your grading skills. On a 1939 dollar always look at the reverse steps and columns on the building as a high grade 1939 will have strong detail still present. I hope that helps and you picked a great looking coin regardless.
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Replies: 15 / Views: 2,259 |
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Posted 06/24/2012 11:57 pm
