Yet Another Fake Mexican Counterstamped 8R!

Excellent pictures TwoKopeiki !
If you don't mind, I reposted those in the facebook group (and ommited your pseudo, I don't want it associated with modern fakes ...)

PS : and thanks again Swamperbob for sharing your knowledge! I've learned a lot since I discovered this place, thanks to you (and some other members, as TK, tokenmast, dosmundos...)

Gosh, now that you say it ... a crack with orange metal is visible on the last one, and on the previous one the patina look strange (silver peeled off ?)
The guy doing this ruined two interesting coins :(

Very nice grouping of counterfeit counterstamps - pictures of these would make a great contribution to the Class 4 group of coins for an archive.

I will look and see if I own an original of the same Zs coin perhaps we could arrange a trade?

Regarding the last two photos - it is my presumption that there is more than a passing suspicion that the host may be counterfeit. The 1809 MoTH coin with the pronounced eye detail is one that I believe was copied for the silver bullion forgery series. It would be a Class 2 forgery not class 1. But an interesting coin. With the Class 3 stamp applied it becomes a 3/4.

The 1817 host with the British Honduras stamp (in the preceeding group) is of course applied to a Class 1 or 3 host counterfeit - making it a mixed class - but still interesting for what it is. 1817 Mo TH is a fantasy.

The 1793 Mo FM shown reverse before obverse is also a Class 3 Modern counterfeit host. The stamp is a typical recent edition BUT the relative condition of the hosts indicates to me that TWO different forgers were involved here. The 1793 is recently made and if the original forger applied the stamp he should have worn down the coin AFTER applying the stamp to make it more convincing. The fact that the stamp was put on after the coin was artificially aged tends to indicate that the second forger picked up an earlier forgery to re-use - the identical case to the 1817 above.

The second 1817 with the Danish Cmk is also in my opinion a forgery because of the split in the flan. The punch was deep set but still silver should not split as readily as I see here unless it is a bad alloy or not silver at all.

The 1894 Peruvian Sol with the Guatemalan c/s is in a different class. It appears there is a collar seam running along the circumference possibly indicating a modern cast. If that is the case (which most recent copies are) than the c/s is part of the mold design. Thus far no one has made a credible fake c/s of the Guatemalan coin. It is simply a Class 3 forgery.

The 1816 Zs appears to be on a Class 1 host. If so this coin might still be of considerable value to a counterfeit collector. The modern forger may have blown a lot of money by picking a rare variety to apply his fake stamps to. Definitely worth a close second look. I would love to learn more about this one.

The 1822 Potosi coin is an example of a different double fraud. The host in this case is a repaired original. A hole was drilled between the 2 and the A in gratia. Why it was drilled is another subject (but the host might have been underweight or counterfeit) but the fraud is the filling of the hole and re-engraving of the host before the Minas Gerias and Portuguese stamps were applied. They are late fakes but I doubt the second forger who applied the stamps did the work. He bought the repaired coin as junk and then applied the stamps. Had he bought a coin with a hole he could have just plugged it and punt one of the stamps over the hole as a "cover" to obliterate what was done.

But speculation about motivation can go on and on forever. Perhaps that is why I find fakes to be more interesting than real coins.

I will try to contact him.

An incredible run of fake countermarks ... too perfect in their diagnostics ... but very NICE! <BG>.

Wait for the ANS book in 2013 - all your questions will be answered. What's another year ... <BG>.

I've never heard of the ANS book, what is it?

Please Please Please let us know when it's available and where we can buy a copy!